The Juggernaut VS The Hulk (in Off-topic)
May 12 2007 11:24 PM EDT
- impenetrable skin
- massive strength
- unlimited stamina
- virtual unstoppable momentum
- force field generation
- invulnerability to physical harm
- does not require to eat, drink, or sleep
- massive strength
- massive speed
- massive stamina
- regenerative healing
- strength increases with anger
- unknown limit of strength
I was just wondering who would win in a fight between these 2 giants if they were fighting inside some giant dome that couldn't break or whatever. I'd personally like to see The Juggernaut win and there's a chance he might because basically, nothing can hurt him physically, and The Hulk certainly doesn't have any psychic powers. On the other hand, The Hulk just becomes stronger and stronger as he becomes madder, meaning eventually he'll be too strong to be damaged by The Juggernaut. And there's no telling what his upper limit of power is, or even if he has one. But then again, what would unlimited strength do if your opponent is unable to be harmed physically? It's a tough call, but if it really came down to it, I think that Juggernaut would win because The Hulk would eventually exhaust, starve, dehydrate. What are your thoughts on this? :P
May 12 2007 11:32 PM EDT
Hulk. His strength would quickly become so superior he could rip Jugg's limbs apart.
May 12 2007 11:48 PM EDT
...Nerevas, The Juggernaut can't be hurt like that. He's invulnerable to physical harm. The only ways to beat him really are psychic attacks and magic. There's a piece of the comic in Wikipedia's entry for The Juggernaut that shows him burned down to a skeleton and he's completely unharmed.
May 12 2007 11:58 PM EDT
I understand it's a comic and everything but how can one be both burned down to the skeleton and be completely unharmed?
May 13 2007 12:02 AM EDT
The same way that The Hulk was still alive after also being burned to his skeleton, with his regenerative healing growing back all his tissue and bones and stuff after a few minutes.
Or the way that Galactus goes flying from planet to planet and basically eats them.
I don't think you should read too much into the possibility of their powers. Of course they're all impossible. Pretty much every superheroes' powers are an impossibility.
May 13 2007 12:03 AM EDT
Nobody wins. It would stalemate since the battle would obviously last more then 25 rounds.
May 13 2007 12:03 AM EDT
could one double-tap the other?
Furthermore, if one were to train in such a way that would allow them to beat the other in one try half the time, would the whole of battles still be considered a double-tap? ;)
I always thought the Hulk had a little cannibal in him . So it seems to me that if he ripped the helmet off jug head then ate his head he'd win plus he'd never have to eat again !
hulk would win you see juggernaut can be stopped and by doing just that you see juggernauts strength is based on his momentuem and if hulk lets say picks him over his head he would lose his momentuem and hulk could just smash his head in cause that kills even immortal
Galactus wins. He would just.. eat everyone else? (Yes I know this isn't the competition.)
May 13 2007 10:29 AM EDT
Again, Juggernaut can't be beaten physically. His helmet is there to repel psychic attacks, his biggest weakness. With it on, nothing can hurt his mind.
And his unstoppable momentum and his strength are two different powers. You can see this because he constantly lifts heavy things and throws them, or just straight off punches stuff and breaks it. He combines his strength with his momentum, which, again, can't be stopped by physical means, meaning Hulk can't stop it either.
May 13 2007 10:34 AM EDT
May 13 2007 10:58 AM EDT
An excerpt from the wikipedia article...
"With his depowerment at the hands of Cyttorak, however, his power levels decreased in almost every aspect. He now needed to breathe, and, while still relatively strong, possessed only a fraction of the strength he once wielded. He also became mortal and could be killed by relatively minor amounts of punishment. Finally, he was no longer an "unstoppable force", and was stripped of his mystical armour and telepathy-shielding helmet (instead wearing "unstable molecule" replicas. Juggernaut can still easily power through the combination of the evil version of Jean Grey's telekinetic onslaught and the evil version of Cyclops' full assault optic blast with no ill effects to himself. Juggernaut also easily withstood an ice barrage from the evil version of Iceman. However, he still does not possess his mystical armor and remains susceptible to attacks on his mind and senses by telepaths."
It would seem he can be hurt because at current he does not posses his mystical armor. My vote goes to Hulk.
May 13 2007 11:23 AM EDT
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. What I meant was pre-depowered Juggernaut fighting Savage Hulk.
May 13 2007 11:51 AM EDT
Hulk could hold him underwater and kill him easily... in the Juggernaut wiki, go to Sammy Pare (young friend of Juggs) and read through... he saved Juggernaut from drowning and "certain death" (from the drowning)... so it seems that he still needs breath...
May 13 2007 12:04 PM EDT
Uh, no, Juggernaut does not need to breathe. Have you seen the parody J2: Juggment Day? They used footage from an X-Men episode and part of that episode involves Juggernaut being thrown into the ocean and him walking underneath water for days until he gets up on a beach. He even punches a shark. And any comics that have Juggernaut in it mention that the Gem of Cyttorak allows him to not need to breathe, eat, drink, sleep.
"Due to the mystical energies flowing through his body, he did not need to eat, breathe or drink fluids.
"With his depowerment at the hands of Cyttorak, however, his power levels decreased in almost every aspect. He now needed to breathe"
Taken from Marvel's profile of The Juggernaut:
"The Juggernaut could survive indefinitely without food, water, or oxygen thanks to his being sustained by his mystical energies alone."
May 13 2007 12:04 PM EDT
And if we're talking about fighting in an unbreakable dome, one could assume there wouldn't be a deep source of water there randomly.
There are too many things you keep changing ... -.- ... First we find out he has been 'depowered', then you said you meant pre-depowered. I'm not a big marvel comic fan, or even comic fan, but which one has the greater intelligence? You don't always have to be the strongest physically to be the strongest... I think it'd be more fair if they weren't in some dome or some crap, and there were ways they could hurt each other by using their brains a little bit.
May 13 2007 12:30 PM EDT
What do you mean I keep changing things? I didn't change anything. I forgot that recently The Juggernaut got depowered. Obviously since I forgot this, I forgot to mention I was talking about pre-depowered Juggernaut, which is the only way the fight would be fair.
And as far as intelligence goes, Juggernaut would win. The Savage Hulk has about the intelligence of a child. But intelligence doesn't really play a part in this. The Hulk's strength has no known upper limit and The Juggernaut cannot be hurt with physical attacks.
May 13 2007 1:52 PM EDT
What's STR matter if the Hulk has 500 AC? But then, Hulk might be wielding a VB....*muses*
May 13 2007 2:20 PM EDT
Yeah, but if The Hulk has 500 AC, then The Juggernaut has Infinity AC, but I guess it would be a draw, unless they were fighting long enough for The Hulk to need to eat, drink, sleep, etc.
May 13 2007 2:53 PM EDT
I meant what's the STR matter if the Juggernaut has 500 AC*** The Hulk just has a TSA, obviously.
Either way, it is a stalemate, lasts more than 25 rounds. Hulk's going to bear-hug the Juggernaut until they both just fall asleep.
May 13 2007 3:14 PM EDT
So, really, this comes down to "irresistible force VS. immovable object"?
Didn't know you were such a philosopher, Op. *smile*
May 13 2007 3:21 PM EDT
Maybe. But not completely. More like irresistible force vs limitless force. Neither The Juggernaut or The Hulk are really unmoveable.
May 13 2007 3:27 PM EDT
Actually, The Blob is known as an immovable object. So if The Juggernaut (an unstoppable force) ran into The Blob, they would defy logic and would make the universe explode?
May 13 2007 3:27 PM EDT
Don't forget that ST grants endurance versus physical attacks.
May 13 2007 3:54 PM EDT
I say Hulk pulls off jugg's helmet.
Whoever has the biggest ELB wins.
If they both have huge ELB's, though, they'll probably draw as they shoot each other for fifty billion damage five times each.
May 13 2007 4:05 PM EDT
The Hulk pulling off Juggernaut's helmet wouldn't do anything for him, because again, the helmet's purpose is protect his mind from psychic attacks. The Hulk could be punching Juggernaut in the face with immense reality-altering force and Juggernaut simply would not be hurt/harmed.
May 13 2007 4:40 PM EDT
Why are you debating this then? The hulk can't do non-physical damage without external help and he can regenerate so juggernaut can't hurt him enough to kill him.
It would be the most worthless fight ever.
So basically, Koy and Hubble unlearning everything, putting it all into ST/UC, and equipping 477 AC gear?
May 13 2007 4:46 PM EDT
Because The Hulk has no upper limit on his strength. He has been known to do some strange crap when he gets angry enough. He can through space/time. He once punched someone and that punch sent shockwaves through other dimensions. I'm trying to figure out if this reality bending is enough to break the physics of The Juggernaut.
May 13 2007 4:59 PM EDT
Hulk and Juggernaut have been going at it for a while and Hulk is ticked, but not really that bad. Juggernaut finally insults him by hinting that his manhood is in question and suggests going on a date with his girlfriend. Hulk swings at him and Juggernaut gives him a low blow. Hulk gets really mad and breaks reality and everything dies. The end.
May 13 2007 5:06 PM EDT
But the pre-depowered Juggernaut can't die. :(
May 13 2007 5:14 PM EDT
Yeah he can. Hulk breaks his reality.
May 13 2007 5:52 PM EDT
Dude, I'm about to break YOUR reality. X(
I do think the Hulk would take the fight. Or at least dispose of the Juggernaut such that he was no longer an issue. Here's what I think would happen.
They square off. Juggernaut rushes forward, using his unstoppable momentum. Hulk sidesteps, and gives him a throw, using Jug's own rush momentum to carry him on. Juggernaut flies away into outer space, never dying by your rules, but never able to do anything ever again.
"who would win in a fight between these 2 giants if they were fighting inside some giant dome that couldn't break or whatever"
May 13 2007 6:35 PM EDT
TH: you suggesting the dome could stop his momentum? Or that he bounces, like some big heavy bouncy ball?
Ooh, good point. In that case, I do believe that the universe would cease to exist at the start of the fight. Reason being:
a) Juggernaut is given unstoppable momentum
b) fighting "inside some giant dome that couldn't break"
c) This means the guy that can't be stopped runs into the dome that can't be broken. You have two absolutes that make no sense there. This means a complete breakage of the rules of this comic book universe and everything blinks out of existence once the fight begins.
idk, good idea, but the dome screws things up...i guess if he were to break it, he would be launched into orbit, or if he were to just keep bouncing, he would be declared incapable of fighting, and the fight called, causing the dome to be opened so that he may eventually bounce right out of there.
Problem solved, the battle goes to the not-so-jolly Green Giant.
he would bounce. Unstoppable doesn't me impossible to redirect. That just came to me.
May 13 2007 7:04 PM EDT
Yeah, I wanna gonna say that. But you said it before me. He could, I dunno, easily turn the other way and keep going. And obviously he can decide to stop running if he wants to.
May 13 2007 7:22 PM EDT
Its silly to use the immortal powered Juggernaught because just about any storyline you see him in for marvel he's already long depowered. Its like trying to pit characters against Thanos with or without the infinity gauntlet. Of course we have to assume without =p
But I prefer to compare the non-immortal juggernaught. In which case the fight must go to Hulk. Juggernaught is the smarter fighter and will put up a good fight, but in the end the Hulk's strength would be too much. I imagine the battle would go on a very long time before Hulk comes up with a tactic other than throwing Juggernaught around which would hurt him nada.
May 13 2007 7:27 PM EDT
The Juggernaut got depowered pretty recently. Almost all storylines that contain him have him still powered by the Gem of Cyttorak. And he's been shown as depowered on TV a total of 0 times. The X-Men cartoon, X-Men Evolution... they all had him still powered.
And that fight wouldn't even be fair. The Hulk has no conceivable upper limit of power, so that means the only way it would even be relatively fair is for The Juggernaut to be powered.
no matter how you alter things, it's unlikely that the strongest being in the marvel universe could be beaten by the dumbest lunk to ever run head first into a wall...
Spider-man wins versus both! LOL
Spider-man vs Hulk and Jugg
All the other things on youtube, it seems as if Jugg wins vs hulk every time, though.
But there is an episode where Hulk goes against all X-Men and Jugg gets his butt handed to him by Hulk.
May 13 2007 7:33 PM EDT
I think Onslaught is the strongest being in the Marvel universe. The maddest Hulk ever got and all he could do was crack Onslaught's armor, which isn't much, because Magneto is part of him, meaning he can easily repair his own armor. And intelligence-wise, The Hulk has the IQ of a child, which is because that's when his dissociative identity disorder (multiple personality) developed due to abuse.
May 13 2007 7:39 PM EDT
And Novice, I just gave a scenario of how Hulk could lose to Juggernaut. The Hulk has eventually revert back to Bruce Banner, will eventually have to eat, drink, will eventually have to sleep. If Hulk doesn't find a way to defeat Juggernaut before he starves, dehydrates, kills himself from exhaustion, reverts back to weakface, then he loses.
May 13 2007 7:49 PM EDT
Hulk, he's just as strong as Juggernaught except that he moves at like 300 miles per hour (if you've seen the movie).
But since you're so bent over on the fact that the Juggernaught is completely invincible to physical attacks and can't be beaten by the Hulk in any manner... then the Juggernaught would obviously win. It's hard to lose when your invincible. Even though I really doubt he's invincible and I really don't care what Wikepidia or episode 129 of X-Men Evolution Series 9 Unlimited (with special cut scenes) says.
But I'll say the Juggernaught loses even though he's invincible. I'm just that cool.
May 13 2007 8:01 PM EDT
Uh, if you've been reading this whole time you'll notice I'm saying that Hulk has the potential to be much stronger than Juggernaut. And it's pretty common knowledge that the Juggernaut is invincible against physical attacks. Just look at the comics. Hell, look at Marvel.com's profile for him.
Unstoppable momentum + un*BREAK*able dome = Juggernaut stretching the dome around the Earth until the Earth is completely covered by said dome.
This will cause everybody to die. Because... um... they'll get run over?
Victory goes to Jugg (which is shocking, because he doesn't have an ELB).
May 13 2007 10:17 PM EDT
So you're pretty much saying you presented us a scenario in which Hulk couldn't win, but made it appear that way so you could prove he would win? I'm not getting the point of that.
So what you can't take all the power up items off Juggy man ?Seems to me he'd have to lose some of the stuff just by any knock down drag out fight knocks stuff off you . It has to !
May 13 2007 10:38 PM EDT
If we're taking Juggernaught at his most powerful, might as well take Hulk at his. In the Marvel Zombie series Hulk in zombie form eats silver surfer's corpse and gains the power cosmic. He then goes on to defeat Galactus with the help of some other zombified heros who also ate silver surfer's corpse. Hulk + Power Cosmic = WIN!!!
May 13 2007 10:52 PM EDT
Op, the bottom line is that you are trying to predict a comic book fight.
Sure, it's not uncommon. It happens all the time. I've done it myself. Those colorful pictures, the elaborate league structures, the never-ending ironic twists... It's great stuff! A lot of us have loved it at one time or another, and I'm sure we've all done it before!
In the fifth grade.
On this thread, folks are pointing out issues that a fifth-grader would reply to with, "huhwhazzat?" Replying with reality. There's a reality above comic books. A ceiling that makes certain questions as esoteric as, "would you rather lose your sight or lose your hearing?" "Coke vs. Pepsi?" "Is that grape juice stain going to need dry-cleaning?" I'm not passing judgment -- I actually believe, stupid backside that I am, that every question is a good question... As long as people have _fun_ with it.
I don't know what fun is, but I can tell you (from personal experience with Bast as a first-hand reference) that playing Devil's Advocate on your own playground is NOT fun in the long term. You aren't looking for answers, because there aren't any. What could _anyone_ say to add to this quandary that has been proposed? You might as well have asked which letter is more important in the alphabet -- R or L? Yeah, both fairly uneventful... And POWERFUL!!!!!!!
Wait, actually, I just thought of an answer that you can't dispute. Not at all. I know who wins. Seriously, if you try to refute it, you will only, only, only lose:
1. The comic book people (sorry, I really don't know names) decide to go way out of the box, and the BBC allows to grant right to a venerable-and-recently-revived-show to write it into the J vs. H fight.
2. The Doctor materialises in the "fight dome" in his TARDIS. The TARIDS can travel through space and time, through any material, so don't think there is anything that could stop him. If I need to, I can write in that Rose Tyler happens to be in the dome somehow, and then NOTHING can stop him. You go Old School on me, and I'll say that somehow Adric is in there. (you're going to need a lot of WikiPedia for this).
3. The Doctor shouts, probably too much and in far-too-melodramatic form, that "That is ENOUGH!". He uses the TARDIS's temporal shield to isolate both the H and the J (and himself, of cousre. Safety first!).
4. Hulk gets REALLY mad! The Doctor tut-tuts him, reminding Hulk that the Time Lords have ruled over all of this sort of thing for millenia, and that Hulk needs to pipe down. Strangely, Hulk speaks, uttering, "I sorry."
5. Juggernaut rams the TARDIS, realizing that it isn't really there (it exists outside of time and space) and so sits down. This makes him motionless, momentumless, and very, very whiny. He says, "MAH!" And skulks back to a far corner of the dome. No one brings him Jello, and when they finally do, it's lime. Blech.
6. Broken, The Hulk and Jugg are wrangled into the TARDIS and shipped to separate Universes that only the TARDIS can traverse. They can never meet again. Just in case, the Doctor lays a temporal, spatial, and inter-spatial lasso on both, as well as a memory blocker, so neither can remember, move, time-shift, or inter-dimensionally move no matter how angry or fast either get.
7. Just to make sure, The Doctor goes to a small room in the back of the TARDIS (he has to use his mini-TARDIS just to get to the far side of the TARDIS -- it's practically endless) because he remembers a module he never plugged into the TARDIS console.
8. With his new Anti-Comic-Book-Changism module now online, The Doctor locks both H and J in an anti-comic field so we never have to worry about this again. Everyone in all of time and space feels slightly uneasy for a moment, but then they realize it is just indigestion, belch, and get on with their lives.
Fair enough? Are you still having fun?
May 13 2007 10:53 PM EDT
Hulk can win. What I'm asking is which is more likely to win in this scenario, Hulk's reality-bending power or Juggernaut's infinite defense? People are getting things mixed up and wrong saying that Juggernaut would lose because his helmet, or that his unstoppability and strength are the same power, or that is the dumber of the 2. I guess what I'm really looking for is a Marvel aficionado that could possibly explain an aspect of one of these giants' powers that would allow them to gain an upper hand.
And Slash, what he's wearing aren't "power items". The only "power item" he has is the Gem of Cyttorak. That's the thing that grants him his invulnerability and all that. The helmet is only there to defend against psychic attacks. His costume itself doesn't do anything at all.
And that's not when Juggernaut's been his most powerful. That's been Juggernaut for most of the time we've seen him at normal. His strongest would probably be the 8th Day series in which he becomes so strong that he beats the hell out of Thor and defeats the other Exemplars (he is an Exemplar, a living embodiment of the power of deity-like entities) on his own. And Marvel Zombies isn't even the same dimension as the mainstream Marvel Comics.
May 13 2007 10:55 PM EDT
I wish I knew what you were talking about. :(
May 13 2007 11:09 PM EDT
My point isn't about the mechanism. It's about the "feel". I can write _anything_ that can beat _either_ of them. So why are you so concerned with which can beat the other in comic-book land?
I would not have even written if there was a single stitch of good humor in anything you write. But there isn't. You are taking this seriously, as in, "ANSWER ME NOW!" And anyone who jokes about it is met with a blank stare.
The battle, as you set it up, is "unbeatable guy (with some unknown potential) VS. unbeatable guy (with some unknown potential)"
Is there a a point to that? If so, would you care to enlighten us all so that we can aid with a dilemma that is causing you such clear distress? I'm not sure why you ever left Impulse...I think he could take the both of them, maybe even The Doctor! (joke, only Dave Lister can beat The Doctor, utilizing a half-moldy prawn vindaloo).
(don't forget, Wikipedia is your friend if you care to research!).
The Juggernaut and Hulk are inferior beings! Exterminate! Exterminate!
May 13 2007 11:27 PM EDT
The Borg assimilated the Hulk, and now he is a tuned green fighting machine. He's learned to control his emotions, and has chemicals pumped into his body to simulate rage as necessary.
I vote Borg Hulk wins everything!
If I recall correctly, Hulk once pounded on Juggernaut hard enough to remove the helmet. However, it took the overpowered, combined ranged attack by Professor Xavier and Marvel Girl to knock Juggernaut out. So, 24 rounds of melee leading to a stalemate followed by 1 quick ranged round.
Borg Hulk = Bane, from that awful George Clooney/Uma Thurman/Ahnlod Batman movie...
May 14 2007 1:07 AM EDT
Maybe a Borg/Hulk/Dalek amalgam? Unstoppable!
I hear the Daleks (or is that just "Dalek") are/is getting desperate these days! *smile*
Throw in some Cylons for subtlety and Lorelei Gilmore for insufferable wit and that is...well, BEYOND unstoppable!
"Lorelei" is in the spell checker? Please, no! It meets requirements in both the CB spell checker and Firefox! Thank God that horrible series is finally ending!!!!
In Marvel vs Capcom 2 Juggernaut was better than the Hulk. He was more usefull anyways.
May 14 2007 3:21 AM EDT
If you really want to beat the Hulk in the Red Dwarf universe just send him to the Backwards Earth. At the least a big meal will put a huge look of surprise on Hulk's face. And every fight will return him to normal again.
Jug slips Hulk a does of anti-hulk serum in a 'Beyond' (Marvel RPG reference) class hypo. Banner gets pasted. ;)
Oh, and Aunt May can kill Galacticus with a wooden spoon. With enough Karma.
Or Hulk could get sent to War World again.
Or the Infinity Gauntlet could turn up.
May 14 2007 5:35 AM EDT
And do you think confronting me about me is supposed to make me Mr. Happy Fun Time?
I'm serious about it because I had the intention of this thread being serious. I don't have a problem with humor, and all I've been doing is correcting the people who have been posting just as seriously as I have.
And if you don't like the thread, you could have had the decency to leave it alone. Instead of you know, coming on it and telling me that it's pointless and insulting me. I believe the last time I insulted a thread by saying it was pointless, I got forum banned for a few days.
Just to be fair, the Juggernaught is like an orange, the Hulk being like an apple. Therefore, the Juggernaught will win, because I like oranges better than apples.
How about Vinnie Jones versus the guy fromt he Hulk movie? ;)
Winner goes to Sut for somehow managing to fit the Gilmore Girls into a thread about Marvel!
So hulk knocks the gem into dust and juggies a hurtin' unit.Of course I don't know where he keeps it but the hulk might find it . It's a weakness that hulk doesn't have any who .
I think what they're trying to say, Juggernaut, is that you're looking for a certain answer, and unless someone gives you that answer, you're going to argue. I don't know if that's true or not, but it seems to be that way to me.
May 14 2007 3:23 PM EDT
Maybe hulk gets so mad he throws a punch that warps through reality to juggernaught's soul and cracks/shatters the ruby of cyttorak =p
After the first punch from each, they would fuse, instantly destroying all creation, except for Bruce Lee's ashes, Chuck Norris' beard, and the new creation.
Ladies and gentleman, I give you.... HULKNAUT!!!!
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