Rare ammo spawning situation (in General)

Talion May 25 2007 11:08 AM EDT

First of all, let say that I have absolutely nothing against G Beee. I am 100% certain that he is simply doing what he his supposed to do. This said...

I admit it, I was exploiting the rare ammo spawning. So when I got warned, I asked if I could still by rare ammo in the auctions if I only buy bolts from the store WHEN I NEED THEM.

The answer: No, you can't buy rare ammo spawned because of you.

So, since I seem to be the only one using seeker bolts, I can't buy them anymore because, since they mostly only get spawned in the auctions because me, I will be violating some sort of rule.

On the other hand, if I asked someone else to buy the ammo for me and resell it to me, that is ok.

Am I the only one to whom this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever????????????

Sorry G, but I feel our CM conversation needs to be posted to clarify my story...

G Beee: "Forcing a spawn of ammo in auctions by buying / selling store items is an exploit of the spawn system. Please stop. Cheers, G."

Me: "Hi... May I ask why. NS had mentioned it to me, but I am not sure why it is bad? I *usually* do this when I start running out of seeker bolts (< 2000 ammo). I buy the 7 biggest stacks of bolts. less than 5 minutes after that, a few stacks of seeker and slayer bolts ALWAYS spawn in the auction. So I bid on them and sell my bolts because which I don't need them anymore. Lets say I do it once a day? Would that be ok? If not, what if I do it only when my seeker bolts count goes bellow 2000 (which lasts for about 160 BA)?"

G Beee: "Nope, sorry. The auction spawn rate is a calculation Jon has introduced based on x,y,z... Artificially forcing a spawn in the manner you are doing throws the calculation off. The "rare" ammo is supposed to be rare and therefore supposed to be difficult to get your hands on. Sorry, but forcing a spawn even once a day is considered an exploit and likely to lead to your character receiving a fine. Sorry :/"

Me: "What am I supposed to do then???? Ignore tha rare ammo spawned in the auctions? It makes absolutely no sense."

GBeee: "If you run out of seekers then you will need to pay premium from other users, use regular bolts or adjust your strat to reduce your dependancy on rare ammo."

AdminG Beee May 25 2007 11:33 AM EDT

To be clear.

The problem here is the part you mention whereupon "So I bid on them and sell my bolts because which I don't need them anymore"

Of course you can buy your rare ammo from auctions. You just can't buy them from there by forcing them to spawn in the manner you do at the moment :p
Buy all the bolts you want from the store, that's cool. Just don't sell them back to the store (or transfer them to other users) as this is exploiting the auction spawn. Buy what you need and use them...

PS. Before anyone draws parallels between this and Bast buying rare ammo from auctions and sending them to retired characters a while back, there's nothing similar between the two issues.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] May 25 2007 11:36 AM EDT

I didn't realize it was linked to the auction spawning. I thought you were doing it just to force the store to update and maybe get an exp shot spawn.

bartjan May 25 2007 11:44 AM EDT

Isn't this only the case for CB1? I thought store/auction spawning in CB2 was linked to battles fought, to solve the store farming problem once and for all?

TheHatchetman May 25 2007 11:44 AM EDT

spawns are by ammo type. Buy every arrow in the store, and you'll never get ES out of it ;)

Talion May 25 2007 11:46 AM EDT

My point is that after I buy bolts from the store, I don't need them anymore because the ammo I need spawns in the auctions 5 minutes later.

If that is illegal, why not just bar users from selling regular ammo back to the store?

How many times have I seen stack of 10K ammo (of ANY kind) sold to the store in order to buy explosive shots?

Shouldn't that be illegal too. It's the same thing. It`s not as if I am selling the seekers for a profit. I am buying and USING the seekers because they are the best ammo for my character. Bolts are distant thirds (behind slayer bolts, which I don't buy because I don't use them).

Cylo May 25 2007 11:53 AM EDT

Here is the problem though. You know that when you are buying the bolts that you have no intention on using them. You are only purchasing to force a spawn. Then reselling back to the store. So you are basically manipulating the spawn of specialty ammo when you need it. Now if you were to buy however many bolts and use them and also bid on the ammo you made spawn then I don't think bee would have a problem because that wouldn't be against the rules. You just have to read how you are doing it and you will see the rule violation.

If you aren't actually ever intending on using the ammo you purchase and are just buying it to re-sell after you "force" a auction spawn. Then that is against the rules. I hope that cleared it up. If not maybe someone smarter than me can post :)

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] May 25 2007 11:56 AM EDT

Oh yea, don't you do it with iron shots sometimes too?

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] May 25 2007 11:59 AM EDT

It's not deliberate but it is still wrong, the reason the ammo spawns so quickly after you buy the bolts is because you are buying too many bolts at once.
When you almost empty the store of a type of ammo, both the store and the auctions spawn that type of ammo, the reason therefore that you have to sell a lot back is because you're buying far more than you may actually need to use.

Talion May 25 2007 12:01 PM EDT

The problem is that I HAVE TO buy regular bolts. I even had to use them during crazy XP time because I ran out of seeker bolts.

Also, once I buy the bolts, I can't bid on the seekers most of the time because then I have too much ammo. I could buy one stack of bolts at a time, but I have lost too much BA because I used small stacks and ran out of ammo.

Anyways, I will repeat the obvious solution...

If selling ammo to the store is illegal in some situation, bar it. Obligate users to either used the ammo they have, transfer it to other users, or auction it. problem solved.

bartjan May 25 2007 12:08 PM EDT

If you prefer to use Seeker bolts, but none are available right now, then why on earth fully stock regular bolts? Just buy 1 or 2 small bundles, should last a couple of hours. Anything more than that is gaming the system.

bartjan May 25 2007 12:09 PM EDT

*selling* is not the part we have problems with. It's the *buying* part.

Talion May 25 2007 1:01 PM EDT

If the solution is buying only small bundles, then why are people buying ammo buy the thousands?

Answer: Because then you don't worry about running out of ammo all the time.

Asking me to buy small bundles of bolts to prevent me from cheating leaves too much for interpretation.

What if I buy 3 bundles of 700 bolts and then a bundle of seekers gets spawned? What is the interpretation? Will I get fined if I buy the seekers?

What if I am auctioning 5K seeker arrows for profit at the same time and I have to sell my bolts to buy the seeker bolts? Will I get fined?

When Explosive Shots get spawned, anyone will sell 12K iron shots to buy the Explosive Shots instead. Even if they got spawned because said person just bought the iron shots. You can't blame someone using iron shots because he/she likes to keep lots of them equipped.

The current rule leaves too much for interpretation. Bar people from selling ammo to the store and your problem is solved.

The same rule does not apply to weapons and armor. Someone who buys 8 leather armors is obviously up to something. That is easy to interpret. Someone who buys 14K ammo in the store and sells it back to buy newly spawned rare ammo is not necessarily up to no good.

AdminG Beee May 25 2007 3:28 PM EDT

The problem:
buy 796 Bolts ($557) 7:22 AM EDT
buy 687 Bolts ($481) 7:22 AM EDT
buy 874 Bolts ($612) 7:22 AM EDT
buy 904 Bolts ($633) 7:22 AM EDT
buy 840 Bolts ($588) 7:22 AM EDT
buy 808 Bolts ($565) 7:22 AM EDT
buy 933 Bolts ($653) 7:22 AM EDT

followed by:
sell 5,842 Bolts ($4089) 7:28 AM EDT

followed by:
This, this and this.

No one is asking you to only buy small bundles to prevent you from cheating. What I am asking is for you not to buy large bundles, wait for an auction spawn (caused by you buying large bundles), then sell your bundle back to the store before snapping up the items in auctions.
In the good old days this used to be considered as forcing the store to spawn rares and was punishable with a hefty fine and item confiscation. I've not seen examples of this on CB2, however by your own admission ("I buy the 7 biggest stacks of bolts. less than 5 minutes after that, a few stacks of seeker and slayer bolts ALWAYS spawn in the auction. So I bid on them and sell my bolts because which I don't need them anymore") this is how it works and the reason why you do it.

Please don't do it anymore :)

Talion May 25 2007 4:06 PM EDT

Ok, I won't do it anymore. I will abide by the rules.

But for the record, you wrote: "No one is asking you to only buy small bundles to prevent you from cheating."

Actually, that is exactly what you are asking me to do.

If I buy too many bolts, auctions will spawn which I will want to bid on. If I have too much ammo, I might have to sell some of it in order to be able to bid on all the spawned ammo. This will result in a fine... unless I buy only small amounts (usually < 2000) of bolts at a time in order to make sure the total for all my characters is low enough for me to bid on all the seeker bolts spawning in the auctions.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] May 25 2007 4:16 PM EDT

Talion, its simple really, you are making it more complex. The store nor CB is under no obligation to provide you with rare ammo. One could easily argue it is obligated to provide regular ammo. You are not allowed to make the store provide you with rare ammo. So either buy a small amount of regular bolts to have and to hold and yes to count against your ammo limit to fight when you run out of rare ammo, or do not fight without rare ammo. These two choices you have, are the same two choices everyone has. I would suggest if it really bothers you, simply stop using the rare ammo since obviously your internal demmand outweighs external supply.

Adminedyit [Superheros] May 25 2007 4:18 PM EDT

Talion, I maybe wrong but the way I interpreted what G wrote was don't buy ammo from the store just to make the rares spawn in auctions.

Talion May 25 2007 4:25 PM EDT

As I wrote before... Ok, I won't do it anymore. I will abide by the rules.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] May 25 2007 4:30 PM EDT

Now I will admit, and perhaps this is the case you need to make, but, the rule has not changed since camping has. Since the spawns which you are forcing are available to everyone to out desire you for them, for 1 hour, one could suggest that you are not truly benefitting from your actions, you are only creating an opportunity for benefit. That said, while what you are doing is against the current rule, instead of trying to figure out how what you are doing could not violate the rule, you should instead lobby for a rule change, and I for one would at least hear you out.

Talion May 27 2007 9:30 PM EDT

Alright, this is the last time I post in, or read this thread.

For those who still doubt that my strategy and the millions of CB $ I invested in it went down the drain since this obscure rule has been revealed to me...

Rare bolts purchased from the auctions last 24 hours:

auctioneer (auctioneer) Zoglog (Elven_Kings) 210 Slayer Bolts [18x1] (+0) (end-auction 99182) 7:53 PM EDT
auctioneer (auctioneer) Zoglog (Elven_Kings) 451 Slayer Bolts [18x1] (+0) (end-auction 99128) 12:48 PM EDT
auctioneer (auctioneer) Zoglog (Elven_Kings) 825 Slayer Bolts [18x1] (+0) (end-auction 99127) 12:48 PM EDT
auctioneer (auctioneer) Zoglog (Elven_Kings) 691 Slayer Bolts [18x1] (+0) (end-auction 99112) 9:35 AM EDT
auctioneer (auctioneer) punxontheprowl (Gomattou) 247 Seeker Bolts [13x1] (+0) (end-auction 99100) 7:03 AM EDT
auctioneer (auctioneer) punxontheprowl (Gomattou) 772 Seeker Bolts [13x1] (+0) (end-auction 99098) 7:03 AM EDT
auctioneer (auctioneer) punxontheprowl (Gomattou) 623 Seeker Bolts [13x1] (+0) (end-auction 99097) 7:03 AM EDT

Auctions spawned in the last 24 hours:

829 Slayer Bolts [18x1] (+0) $995 $995 May 26 11:02 PM EDT
403 Slayer Bolts [18x1] (+0) $484 $483 May 26 11:02 PM EDT
283 Slayer Bolts [18x1] (+0) $340 $339 6:59 AM EDT
691 Slayer Bolts [18x1] (+0) $830 $829 9:30 AM EDT
244 Seeker Bolts [13x1] (+0) $293 $293 9:30 AM EDT
656 Seeker Bolts [13x1] (+0) $788 $787 9:30 AM EDT
451 Slayer Bolts [18x1] (+0) $542 $741 12:45 PM EDT
825 Slayer Bolts [18x1] (+0) $991 $990 12:45 PM EDT
210 Slayer Bolts [18x1] (+0) $253 $452 7:51 PM EDT
433 Seeker Bolts [13x1] (+0) $520 $519 7:51 PM EDT
371 Seeker Bolts [13x1] (+0) $446 $445 8:14 PM EDT

Oh yeah, a typical day.
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