Small HoC Change (in General)

I think the HoC should give a 4% penalty to DX. If it is going to hurt mages, it should hurt tanks too. I'd -prefer- that the penalty to DD was just taken away, but I think that won't happen. But I don't see a problem with making those huge tanks pay for getting an entire extra round with their bows. Just keep everything fair :)

sounds keen!

I'm in agreement with that one, as well. It isn't like they can't spare it, with the insta-tank tattoo out there.

Yes! Brilliant idea.

The difference is that mages do not get penalized in their extra round, while tanks do. For a tank, round 4 of ranged combat is treated as a range of 2, while for mages, it's treated as a range of 1 for purposes of penalties. That alone is a big discrepancy. Would you rather have the 4% DD penalty, or would you rather face a 10% penalty because you are fighting at a range of 2?

Said another way, the DD effectiveness is 70,80,90,100. If mages were akin to tanks, it'd be 70,80,90,90. It's not.

Addendum - the ranged penalty applied during combat is 10% off your effect. The penalty applied by the HoC at 4% is off of the level.

That's 10% in only one round, only damage-wise, and it doesn't affect AMF. Not the same.

/me points out that CoC takes a 12% penalty to it's first attack when using HoC. 2% from the HoC, 10% for firing in ranged.

Same with decay.

No, only FB and MM get that reduction.

Besides, mages get hurt far worse by these kinds of penalties. We have one stat, so take a larger hit.

Besides, when have archers ever had problems with hitting? Even against evasion, the largest still do fine.

I vote yes! Add a DX penalty!!

There is no ranged penalty to CoC in its bonus round in ranged. If there were, the AMF backlash would be different between the last ranged round and the first melee round.

and take away the deduction(s) if that is done.

Aye. We can't have ToA users only hitting 499 times. *grins*

Yeah. I understand the ToA archers worries. It doesn't sound fair at all they might only hit 16 times before the end of ranged, instead of 20... GASP. How would they survive?

I, for one, know evasion is quite powerful... Evasion/DBs is an easy way to counter ToA Tanks. : / ...

That's what they all say.

I couldn't even hit someone with a 101 evasion with a full effect of archery, 740k dex, a +100 ELB and a 750k ToA in the first round.

No, really? 101 effect in the first round is insane.

I'm not convinced. With the large evasion multiplier in the first round the HoC is often no use to an archer as it is.

Yeah, everyone should train their evasions that high to dodge one round of combat...

Maybe that situation is quite unfair to you, but in later levels with bigger ToA's and bigger bows, evasion will be overpowered - the upgrade cost gets steeper and steeper. Same goes for DB's.

Back to the topic; yeah, the HoC should give some penalty like that.

hmm, evasion seems to work pretty well in the other rounds too. Last char I ran I was giving some tanks trouble in melee with it. Lets put it this way, do you want it to be an archer item or not, if not then yea the penalty would be fine.

So you're saying that the DX penalty should only be applied if mages don't get the HoC bonus?

No I'm saying why bother using an item slot for an extra round at the cost of less DX in every round when that extra round is worthless versus a decent evasion.

Uhhh, I don't know...
maybe because not everyone has evasion like that?

"when that extra round is worthless versus a decent evasion."

The extra round was moved from the front to the back.