Mage GA/AMF imbalance. (in General)


Godpanda June 15 2007 5:08 AM EDT

I don't know why. Probably because it's 5 in the morning and I been on since 1... but I had an idea.


I think one of the main problem my mage (and by extention I think other mages) are having is the lack of leech. See, most tanks go one of a few ways. Archers (which are, admittedly, the nonconformist to my idea), heavy tanks which are the main aspect of it, and basically, all other tanks which use Morg or VB.

See, to fight GA, tanks have many options. AC, Morg, VA, BoTh, ToE.

Mages just have ToE. AND mages have to fight against AMF.

So, basically, mages lose HP -way- faster then tanks. While that in itself is considered standard for a mage, what is odd is that mages do -not- deal much greater quantities of damage.


So... uhh... basically.... give DD a way to fight of GA and AMF, that -isn't- just an all purpose tattoo. If tanks get more than one way, so should mages. ....

Uh... I should go to bed now... Merry August!

Godpanda June 15 2007 5:18 AM EDT

D'oh. Complained, but didn't offer a solution. Bad Wolf.

Solutions:

Talismans. I like this idea in general. Could give minons a range of affects based on the stats trained. CoC would get endurance, FB would get a small vorpal ability and MM would get a small splash damage. Or something like that.

Some higher AC armor that can be used for mages. Especially. and I mean especially, shields. Mages need a shield. You could put tons of groovy affects on shields for mages. NOT power shields. Regular ones.

Reduce the AMF percent from 50/50 to 60/40. Less damage thrown back at mage and more absorbed. I think this idea will be hated :)

Uh... yeah.... still really tired...

Godpanda June 15 2007 5:34 AM EDT

Ignore AMF numbers. Basically I mean higher reduction, with less basklash.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] June 15 2007 6:22 AM EDT

you got those nice gloves now to help with the amf backlash. But you are right, should VA work for DD spells? or perhaps a new kind a spell that gives leech for DD only?

lostling June 15 2007 6:28 AM EDT

leech wouldnt make sense..(speaking as a mage user) however having the AMF reduction would be nicer

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 15 2007 7:05 AM EDT

New DD. Front hitting, single target, Melee range only.

'x'% (20 maybe) of damage done it gained by the Mage.

Talion June 15 2007 8:12 AM EDT

Another mage complaining. Sheesh!

Just invest more XP into HP and Protection and/or AMF.

When I look at the available targets from 500K to 1.5M MPR, 80% of them are mage teams. So if mages are at such a disadvantage, why is the vast majority of CB users choosing them?

Those tanks you are complaining about have to invest tons of XP into DX, ST, Archery, Bloodlust, etc... And they have to invest all their money into their weapons to keep them competitive.

Mages, once they have the proper gear equipped, have to worry about spending money on BA and don't have to worry about ST and DX.

My single tank uses a $33 NW AxBow and every intelligent mage out there still manages to train enough XP into Evasion to dodge most of the Bolts I fire at it and kill me before, or at the beginning of, the melee rounds.

QBOddBird June 15 2007 8:21 AM EDT

Another mage complaining. Sheesh!


--- No kidding. I'm set for a while now that I've got my precious NSs. =)

Just invest more XP into HP and Protection and/or AMF.

When I look at the available targets from 500K to 1.5M MPR, 80% of them are mage teams. So if mages are at such a disadvantage, why is the vast majority of CB users choosing them?




---Because the vast majority of CB users are cheap, like me. They all know how superior a single ToA Archer is, but don't want to fit into the mold.

Those tanks you are complaining about have to invest tons of XP into DX, ST, Archery, Bloodlust, etc... And they have to invest all their money into their weapons to keep them competitive.



---....or the could just equip the auto-win tattoo, the ToA.

Mages, once they have the proper gear equipped, have to worry about spending money on BA and don't have to worry about ST and DX.



---Aye. We're plug-n-play, fire and forget, no worrying about things like ST and DX....which is why mages constantly ask for a new skill, a new mage-specific DD, a new SOMETHING. You might think it is simple, and fact is, you're right. Unless you do like me and try something ridiculous, like putting all your XP into EC and trying to run a CoC mage that kills tanks. As if EC of any proportion of a team can overcome a ToA.

My single tank uses a $33 NW AxBow and every intelligent mage out there still manages to train enough XP into Evasion to dodge most of the Bolts I fire at it and kill me before, or at the beginning of, the melee rounds.



---What can I say, we don't ever miss. But then, we also don't get to hit 4 times a round.


*shrugs* I know what you're saying, Talion, but you're agreeing with GW in a way. Mages need more options. Too easy - but that also makes it more difficult, because there are such simple solutions to being beaten by a mage team.

Anywho, I'd try and think this post out a little more before I hit 'Submit', but I'm out for a doctor appointment.

QBJohnnywas June 15 2007 8:38 AM EDT

Doctor who?

Talion June 15 2007 8:52 AM EDT

The single ToA Archer... let just call it the STA. Oh yeah! It's the mage's favorite argument.

Every time someone tries to argue with mages they inevitably come back with: "But single ToA archers always kills me! Boohoo!".

Well tough!

The STA is the most hated character because it is the absolute mage bane. Since mages comprise 80% of CB users, welll... you see where I am going?

An STA with a bow worth less than $20M is not match for me because of my AxBow, Evasion, and high DX combo. The bigger I get, the more trouble I will become for the STA. There are many downsides to my strat (like losing to most mage teams), but not that one.

Talion June 15 2007 8:55 AM EDT

But I do agree that mage combos, although they are getting more numerous lately (HoC, NSC), are a lot more limited than tank combos.

Godpanda June 15 2007 9:26 AM EDT

Bit more limited? Outside of ToE, which tanks can use also, mages have no combos. Tanks have VA, GS, Haste, and 2 skills that no one else can use.

What do mages have? Mages have absolutely nothing. Though, -maybe- junction.

Look, I'm just sooo tired of people saying to make up for ridiculous strategies like ToA archers by training half their exp into a single stat.

If I hear, one more time, that the solution to admittedly overpowered strategies is dropping 40 million experience into evasion or EC, I'm going to give up on the reasoning skills of CB.

Eh.

Just give mages more choices, Without choice, the strategy part of the game becomes boring. AND, as it's been said, the mage is all about being effective, without spending NW. And right now, even the mages are at the point of -having- to have a good deal of NW to compete.

So give mages a way to more effectively use their strongest asset, exp.

Even the HoC, such a great mage item, punished mages, removing their greatest asset. I mean, when you look at it, the 2% penalty to DD is a 3-4% loss to both ST AND DX. Because unlike mages, tanks can boost their stats far more effectively. All penalties hurt mages more thoroughly, because mages have no way to counterbalance it.

Really, I didn't mean to turn this into a tank//mage debate. I just wanted to ask for a bit of choice for mages. But, as always, whenever anyone sees mage boost, they get on the defensive. Why? Mages are -obviously- not what they should be.

Talion June 15 2007 9:31 AM EDT

"Bit more limited?"... No, I wrote "a lot more limited".

And I posted a possible new combo/solution here: The Lich Familiar

Flamey June 15 2007 9:33 AM EDT

"But, as always, whenever anyone sees mage boost, they get on the defensive. Why? Mages are -obviously- not what they should be."

Well, you don't see anybody posting for new tank ideas at all. All the ideas for a long time have been about mages or familiars or enchanters, basically anything but Tanks. Except for maybe boosting BoNE/ELS I guess that wouldn't really affect mages that much either.

Drama [Just for fun] June 15 2007 3:07 PM EDT

And why not put some random special abilities like:

Fireballs: May ignite one of the opponent dealing a % of your FB's level for two to five rounds.

Cone of cold: May freeze one of the opponent for one round.

Magic Missile: May cut through all the defense of the last opponent.

lostling June 15 2007 3:28 PM EDT

may just doesnt cut it lol... imagine if you had VA as you MAY drain some hp from the enemy -.-

Drama [Just for fun] June 15 2007 4:03 PM EDT

Get a melee weapon and train VA. I prefer my idea, put something like 15% of chance that it happens.

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] June 15 2007 5:07 PM EDT

the + enchantment on ac should help against GA backlash from DD as well as the EH should help vs GA backlash from DD. Remember, its the same type of dmg given as recieved, so the EH should be wonderful for a mage vs ga

Adminedyit June 15 2007 5:31 PM EDT

hehe i love these threads :)

lostling: "leech wouldnt make sense..(speaking as a mage user) however having the AMF reduction would be nicer" well thats an easy answer they're called NSC.

GW: "Bit more limited? Outside of ToE, which tanks can use also, mages have no combos. Tanks have VA, GS, Haste, and 2 skills that no one else can use." thats a double edged sword there GW. tanks NEED those 2 skills, no archer without training archery. and all the VA and GS in the world do nothing if you can't hit a target, and most mages use DM to counter these enchantments.

I've said it before and I'll say it again now. There is no real "overpowered" strat here on CB. It's a game of rock, paper, scissor.

QBOddBird June 15 2007 6:32 PM EDT

I said the ToA is the auto-win tat - not the STA.

That is one variant of the auto-win tattoo. It is, particularly, the variant that is most difficult for me because my 60% EXP in EC can't keep up with stats that don't require experience to be advanced. Just can't do it.

However, it is an automatic make-a-worthless-minion-your-damage-dealer. Got a newly hired minion, and he's not got enough EXP to be anything more than a 1 round kill-slot? Drop a ToA on him. Now he's your main damage dealer, with enough PTH to get around an average-sized Evasion.

I have had a beef with the ToA since before becoming a mage (only a recent development, btw) - and for many, many reasons. But that's not what this thread is about. =)


My only argument was that mages get fewer choices. This gives tanks an excuse to say 'yeah, but you get just 2 stats to train into and that's it!' - but that's not so much an advantage IMO. I'd rather have a skill that could improve my DD to go along with it, or to augment it.


Better yet, gimme another instant-win tattoo. Make it like the ToA, but for DD instead of STR and DX and PTH. You get 2 EXP stats and 1 NW sink for a very small initial investment there, so it doesn't seem too unfair to make a tattoo that gives ONLY 40% of its level to DD , right? *grins*

Kinda catching my drift?

QBOddBird June 15 2007 6:33 PM EDT

JW - Dr. Elliot! Gave me some better meds for my migraines. FINALLY. =)

Drama [Just for fun] June 15 2007 7:11 PM EDT

One of the big problem between Mage and Tank is that:


EC needs to be really really high if you want to see it work well, but you can train a little AMF and it can do the work against DD. Yeah there is the NS, but there is still a big difference between the amount of exp train in EC and AMF for them to be good. Same thing with evasion.

noneedforthese June 15 2007 8:08 PM EDT

I didn't read all of this, but I have but one comment.

CB gets new items in the form of supportership items, and occasionally new rares. Lemme ask you this: what proportion of those are geared towards mages/tanks/both?

I haven't been here all that long, but clearly the only items a tank absolutely cannot make use of are AG/NS/COI. Now, 2$ CB on who can name items that mages can't use.....

lostling June 15 2007 11:10 PM EDT

edyit... even with +12 NSCs they dont get rid of enough.... the problem being that mostly the AMF is almost equal to the magic spell your casting.... considering that you would have almost a 0.5... using a +12 NSC only makes it 0.38 ... still enough to do A LOT of damage return

Flamey June 16 2007 9:19 AM EDT

what teams have more than 50% of their xp into AMF..?

Most Single Mages have roughly 50% into their DD, and the rest goes to HP and probably Evasion. Even with more than one minion, their DD is still pretty high and I doubt a lot of people have an AMF trained equal to that.
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