VB vs Bone (in General)

63x2100 +101
92x1700 +102

Vs a ToE / Prot(20) / AC (53) minion, they deal the same damage, with the bone eeking out on top.

Further, the bone is about 6m less NW.

At what point is the VB better than the bone on a NW for NW level? I don't care what the 'x' number is - I care what the cost of that number is. Also, the upgrade curve of the PTH is different. I'm finding it hard to believe that the VB is better than the bone even against high AC / Endurance.

Does anyone have any data on this?

From the Changelog:

And the AC at which the VB does more damage than the ELS is 350.)
The AC point at which the new VB does more damage than the BNE is 375

So its not the NW of the weapons but the number of AC you come across.

Incidently, if the VB can't ever really come out on top for damage compared to a bone against high damage reduction chars, then I find the weapon totally 100% useless.

Jon never updated the AC value against the Bone after he boosted the VB from 50-something to 63, only the ELS. How was the number determined?

And yes, it IS the NW that matters, because at that AC, assuming it's correct, the VB does more damage than a bone at equal 'x' values. But the bone's x's are cheaper, and thus you can boost them higher for the same cost to balance against the damage reduction.

I thought i posted this earlier, but i guess i didnt confirm it.

Ranger was able to average about 35k damage with a x12001 MH and ~3.4m ST against an opponent with 410 AC and a ToE. Against the same opponent, with a x4000 VB, I was able to average ~177k damage. I know these are extreme circumstances, and the MH isnt a BoNE, but I figure there is a massive nw difference in the x there, and i was still doing over 5 times the damage...

For what it's worth, there's also the difference between 1-H (VB) and 2-H (BoNE) to take into account. Not quite an apples-to-apples comparison.

NS - what you seek can be calculated fairly easily - having said that I can't be bothered calculating it at the moment :)

Basically we have the old values for AC where VB Damage = ELS Damage and VB Damage = BNE Damage so we can then solve ELS Damage = BNE damage by substitution (it will be something like ELS Damage * 1.2 = BNE Damage since BNE does more damage than ELS)

Then all we need to do is substitute BNE damage for ELS damage in the new AC level where VB Damage = ELS Damage.

That only applies if it's a linear change. A weapon with a base of 100x1, however, deals way more than twice the damage of a weapon with a base of 50x1.

Quite right, but that's irrelevant to the calculation above.

i think the new value should be around 276 AC as the break even point between vb and bone. i just made a simple equality and solved it:
92 - .21x = 63 - .21(.5x)

oh yea, where x is the AC value

Where's the .21 from?

This is from the change log thread:

NightStrike, March 29 3:40 PM EDT
Where's the AC cut off difference versus a BONE?

NightStrike, March 29 10:56 PM EDT
According to the other thread, the cut off values before the subsequent buff, were:

"with 50% reduction those are 352 and 328 for BNE and ELS."

So the ELS cut off comparison went from 328 to 246. Anyone know how to calculate what the bone is? I can at least guess that it's less than 352 and more than 246.

Zoglog[T], March 30 5:22 AM EDT
I'd say 264 Nightstrike but obviously I woouldn't bet my life on it.

ELS has been lowered to 75% of the previous figure and 352*0.75=264 :)

Pit, if that equation was correct, then we could verify it with the value that Jon gave us for the ELS -- 246:

Y - .21x = 63 - .21(.5x)
Y - 63 = .105x

(Y-63)/.105 = x


Where Y = base damage for the weapon. An ELS is 80, so:

80-63/.105=x=162
162 is far from 246.

** Disclaimer - long and potentially wrong math below **


Ok lets start from the beginning. This is what we know:

Previously the cutoff values were 352 and 328 for the BNE and ELS. We can therefore write two equations for the ELS and BNE.
1) BNE Damage = VB Damage at 352 AC
2) ELS Damage = VB Damage at 328 AC


AC reduces damage by 0.21% * AC and the VB cuts through half of armors damage reduction.
Therefore:
Post AC damage = (1-(0.0021*AC)) * Raw Damage for normal weapons
Post AC damage = (1-(0.5*0.0021*AC)) * Raw Damage for VB
We can substitute these into equations 1 and 2 to get:

3) BNE Damage * (1-(0.0021*352) = VB Damage * (1-(0.00105*352)
4) ELS Damage * (1-(0.0021*328) = VB Damage * (1-(0.00105*328)

Simplifying we get:
BNE Damage * .2608 = VB Damage * .6304
5) BNE Damage = 2.4172 * VB Damage

ELS Damage * .3112 = VB Damage * .6556
6) ELS Damage = 2.1067 * VB Damage

Substituting 6) into 5) we get
7) BNE Damage = 1.1474 ELS Damage

So a BNE does 14.74% more damage than an equivilent ELS.

We also know the new cutoff for the ELS is 246 so now:
8) ELS Damage * (1-(0.0021*246) = VB Damage * (1-(0.00105*246)
Simplifying we get:
ELS Damage * .4834 = VB Damage * .7417
9) ELS Damage = 1.5343 VB Damage
We can substitute 7) into 9) to get
10) BNE Damage = 1.7605 VB Damage

Now we can solve for X (where X = the AC where BNE Damage = VB Damage)

11) BNE Damage * (1-0.0021X) = VB Damage * (1-0.00105X)
Substituting 10) into 11) we get
12) VB Damage * 1.7605 * (1-0.0021X) = VB Damage * 1 - 0.00105X
1.7605 - 0.003597X = 1 - 0.00105X
.7605 = 0.002547X
X = 298.59AC

So at about 298-299 AC, VB Damage = BNE Damage