Evasion: EBs or DBs? (in General)

At the moment I seem to have more luck with +10 EBs than +22 DBs.
Does this change with putting money in, or should I just sell the DBs for a quick profit?

In the long run, EBs will be better than DBs.

unless you have a quadrillion dollars.

I'm sure G_Beee would insert some amusing gif with lots of money being waved about here, but I will just say thanks :-)

you can easily get them to +22 for not much at all. And when you think about it, as your evasion increases the amount a percentage increases, increases, whereas with DB to see any change you have to pay.

accually its +27 :)each upgrade costs below 1mill :)

Did someone say money?

I don't have a "quadrillion" dollars, but I've managed to get the DBs I just bought two weeks ago at base up to +45, while buying all my BA. It's not like it's that large of an investment until you get passed the +100 area.

This is a really interesting question, I think. Take EB at +27 and DB at +58, as they're about the same NW. EB will add 27% (ignore naming bonuses for now), and DB will add 221,859 to your level. So it really depends on how big your evasion is. When Evasion is smaller, DB has a much greater impact. When Evasion is larger, EB does. However, EB tops out pretty fast, so once EB maxes out, DB starts gaining ground again. The NW growth curve of DB is much nicer if you're going to pump a lot of money into it. With EB, you *will* have to stop at some point, probably around +3x. So take the low end at 30%. If your evasion * 1.30 is less than the static increase of the DBs, then it's time to switch. If it's more, then stick with EB.

It seems to me that you would start with DB, go to EB, then go BACK to DB once you hit the high ranks.

This does NOT take into context the multiplicative features of EB-granted evasion in ranged combat. DB work differently, and do not multiply.

Look at it like this:

An evasion of 775,000 will give an effect of 100, as well as defensive dex.

If you add a pair of DB that are +100, it will add another 775,000, which will subtract 134 from pth, but still give the same amount of defensive dex as before.

Now if you add a pair of +25 EB to that you will have an effect of ~1 mil, or 111. That is all defensive dex as well, and it all gets multiplied in range.

The way the evasion curve works, I would argue the DB are *never* a good alternative to a pair of EB, since they don't give any defensive dex, plus there effect does not get multiplied in range, when evasion is most useful. Plus in the example above, there is a ~13 mil NW difference for the addition of another -23 to hit (at the cost of defensive dex).

DB are definitely king when you're starting out. Put a pair of +150 on an NCB to get an extra 1PR and you'll dominate.

NS: I'm not sure how that works?
+150 dbs will add more than 1PR surely?

PR added is based on the XP of the minion wearing the item. If you put uber gear on a low XP char, it will add very little XP, though it will easily allow you to fight > 2x your PR in score.

k - so as s SFBM at 75k MPR I'm better with EBs, as I'm not too keen on getting into melee anyway

Preliminary analysis using Nightstrike's evasion spreadsheet shows the DBs pretty much always better than EBs. The only exceptions are for very high evasions (160+) and very low NW items, and even those results don't seem to be consistent.

Some caveats: this analysis was done assuming otherwise naked minions wearing equal NW boots, without factoring in the differences in AC and the effect of the ranged-round multiplier.

The tricky part is that there are two degrees of freedom here: the NW of the items and the level of the evasion on the minion with the boots. This requires some two-dimensional analysis as you vary both variables. The other tricky part is coming up with a common metric. EBs give a bonus to the level, while the DBs give a bonus to the effect. I am assuming that the way that DBs work is that you get your evasion effect, then add your DB bonus on to that. If that is not how they work, then I have a flaw in my results.

Some example data points:
$10K NW items @ effect of 50, 100, 150 :
EB = level +6378, +31030, +79520
DB = level +21966, +56252, +92222

$1M NW items @ effect of 50, 100
EB = level +33484, +162907
DB = level +347205, +747364

I can't do @ effect of 150 because there is not enough data.

I'll try factoring in some of the things I've left out next. The biggest question on my mind is whether my assumption about how DBs work is correct or not, though. I'll do some searching on the forums to see if anyone has already figured this out.

OK, ignore those numbers above. They appear to be totally bogus because I didn't correctly calculate the interaction between evasion and DBs.

Using what seems to be generally accepted as the model for how DBs stack with evasion (c.f. this and this) I am drawing a different conclusion. There is definitely a threshold at which EBs become better than DBs.

At low levels of evasion, you always want to start with DBs, but at some level that depends on the NW of your items, you want to make a switch to EBs as your evasion grows.
With all the caveats of the previous post, here are the results:
@ $10K NW: switch to EBs at evasion effect 16
@ $50K NW: switch to EBs at evasion effect 29
@ $100K NW: switch to EBs at evasion effect 36
@ $500K NW: switch to EBs at evasion effect 57
@ $1M NW: switch to EBs at evasion effect 74
@ $5M NW: switch to EBs at evasion effect 119 or 120

It would seem that for absolutely ginormous DBs, they could conceivably always be better than EBs for all achievable levels of evasion. Then again, there are some pretty large evasions around.

Again, I'll try to work out the effect of some of the complicating factors that I'm ignoring as the next step.

If you are training evasion, it is better to use DBs at lower levels and EBs at higher levels.

The level of evasion is only one variable. You have to look at the NW you are willing to spend on boots as well before you can determine which is better.

Hmmm, OK.
Currently with an Evasion Effect of ~20 (out of total MPR of 82k), EBs are a better option (Fightlist-wise)
The boots are: EBs of 46k NW, DBs of 368k.
This is obviously with my setup (SFBM) tuned to a particular goal (making money for 4 months before NCB)
I'm not averse to spending money (I will be using them sometime, so it won't be wasted) but I'm not going crazy, as there is other stuff to improve.
Interesting...

Synge, your second post conforms to exactly what I thought the situation would be. Thanks for confirming everything with hard data. Now I know I wasn't just theorizing :)

Just one thing... there is the caveat that Evasion (N) is better than DB +N given defensive DX and ranged multiplication.

NS -I'd hesitate to rush to that.
Depends on your particular setup - if you're more interested in melee I would imagine the DBs hold the edge

VC - I was just referring to one particular standing -- namely, PTH reduction in melee.