when to use what items question (in General)

im just curious how everyone thinks... a few questions

1. when do you use NSCs and when do you use AGs

2. when do you use DBs and when do you use EBs (evasion trained)

2. when do you use DBs and when do you use EBs (UC trained)

3. when do you use HOCs and when do you use HOE

4. should i upgrade my stuff or just stop there (armor only) (weapons are like duh)

how do you make these choices? im interested to know :)

1) It's difficult. But, mainly, AGs are better. For CoC, I liked NSCs. So many AMFs out there... but with MM... I go AGs. I mean.. my +12 AGs add 240000 levels to my MM against everyone. NSCs might save me that much, but only against large AMFs.
So, in the end... if AMF kills you, and you're overkilling enemies, go NSCs. If you aren't hitting for enough, just use AG.

2: EBs. DBs don't stack so well with evasion. But EBs work very well. That, and they give a nice amount of AC, where DBs give zero.

3: Same as two.

4: In my opinion, HoC unless you have a very specific reason for HoE. Like... if you have no bow.. go HoE. Otherwise... HoC. With ranged damage being what it is, why waste time boosting ST? What's the difference between -3 and -4 million HP enemy minions??

5: Upgrade if you can afford it. Always.

(1) What Godwolf wrote.

(2) What Godwolf wrote. However, if you have a tank that plans to do most of its damage during combat, you are better off training more DX (to counter EC) and using DB's. The DB's will nullify a lot more PTH than Evasion can ever hope to during melee.

(3) Same as (2).

(4) What Godwolf wrote except the not needing a lot of ST part. You need more ST than DX because if your ST hits 0 because of Ec or an ExBow, you will be in a lot of trouble. Any self-respecting tank always trains tons of ST.

(5) What Godwolf wrote.

Wow, I'm honored..

And forgot the EC part. So keep in mind if your borderline anyone EC wise. If you get there... HoE might not be a bad idea.

1. AG's only, use AC and ToE if you want to reduce AMF.
2. Always DB's
3. Always HoC (unless you are Melee only tank)
4. Upgrade your DB's.

Why DB's? they are cheaper to take up to +200 than EB's would be. 25 mil will get you up to +34 EB's, same amount spent on DB's will put you at +124... From there it's 6-7 mil per point for EB's, and still just over 1.2 mil per point for DB's. Even with my +214 Db's, it's 1.2 mil to up them 1 more point.

"(4) What Godwolf wrote except the not needing a lot of ST part. You need more ST than DX because if your ST hits 0 because of Ec or an ExBow, you will be in a lot of trouble. Any self-respecting tank always trains tons of ST. "

I didn't train much ST.... I chose a more Dex based training Strat. I do enough damage to kill, but I'd rather guarantee that hit.

wouldnt it depend on how big your evasion is? example a 5mill would give you 1700000 levels of evasion with the EB but the DB would only give 17,354,741 levels of un dexed evasion

"1. AG's only, use AC and ToE if you want to reduce AMF."

AC doesn't reduce AMF...

1. if using toe, I would only use NSCs with CoC. if not using toe, always NSC.

2. If evasion or UC is trained, always EB. If not trained, then DBs are an option.

3. Whenever you damage dealer has a strong ranged attack. If you're mostly melee focused with a crappy ranged weapon, then use HoE.

4. Weigh the cost/benefits.

can someone give me EBs vs DBs calculations?

Everything is about right, the only thing I want to mention about the EB/DB debate is that I personally think that you use DB down lower, where they are cheaper and more effective than EB, no argument there. In upper levels I'd go EB, it adds a lot to DX, especially for UC, as it adds to your UC and DX. If you have a lot of money, you could go the DB route, but I think that EB are best for UC tanks.

HoE is for melee tanks only, or small ranged weapon as Nere said.

I think there is a certain point to which it is beneficial to upgrade your armour, when it comes to around 1 mil a point, I think it's ok to stop. You should keep your upgrade costs even, 1 mil for a point on all your items is a good place.

if you got a familiar or a mage thats not the main dmg dealer, and used just to back the (e.g. archer, tank and such) as well as, if you have no AMF protection what so ever then i prefer to use the NSC over AG.

Also if your DD level is low, use NSC.

define low ... and the EBs or DBs question i was actually refering to evasion

Mikel wrote: "I didn't train much ST..."

You don't need to train more. Your ST is already over what Ranger can nullify with his humongous EC. However, I imagine that if someone could actually drain your ST to 0, you would have to train more in order to keep your damage high enough.

Use NSC whenever you have a base decay mage, otherwise AG's are better route unless you deal with high AMF's that kill your mage... If your mage dies due to AMF then you don't have enough HP... simple as that.

Heres an example to help you with this one... I'm not absolutely certain how they stack but you can figure it out... I have 890,720/586,000 (106) without the EB's or DB's, , My evasion is 1,048,940/586,000 (113) with +25 named EB's, DB of 112 give me an evasion level of 1,012,170 so in essence DB and evasion stack (from my understanding of how they stack) to level 1,902,890... that is an evasion of around 150 or so? But keep in mind only 890k... the original Evasion level is used in Ranged multipliers for Ranged. So which is better in your opinion? Even using EB's of Freed's size (35) it only gives me an extra 210,960 Evasion level to my original level. (116) 1,099,991 So what would you prefer for your 20 mil? Effect of (116) or Effect of (150)?

Only use the HoC if you need that extra first round to hit with your Ex/Ax bow... or if you are using a ranged based strat... otherwise HoE will be better with all the EC's out there right now.

Always upgrade if you can afford the price and/or the impact it will have on your PR. Especially anything that has a double impact like Elven Gear or Corns.

how do you make these choices? im interested to know :)

"Low" like your opponent can cast 0.20+ AMF on your or something... dunno I don't think it's that hard to tell whether your DD is low or not...

is the defensive dex given better then the flat out -PTH and since people have said that DBs dont multiply during ranged rounds... can someone please give some thought? im interested to know

Well to get max effect on taking away dex I think all you need is one and a half times their dex... defensive dex works the same... so go with the last round of ranged... whats the evasion modifier? 5/3? this is at 830k evasion level 1,383,333 Defensive dex.... now how much dex do you need at your level to have more dex than they have?

"AC doesn't reduce AMF..."
Don't overlook the power of a TSA. Regenerates natural HP lost from AMF/GA/Hits. So in theory, it does reduce AMF damage correct?

So what if you lose 10% DD, you can put on AG's and a CoI and get it all back and then some.

That has nothing to do with AC, that's just a property of the TsA, I was just correcting your statement that AC reduces AMF.