New Default Theme? Jet Red? (in General)

Hey all. So as you guys and gals know from the poll, CB will be undergoing a revamping. The majority of you (majority by a sort of slim margin, actually) voted to make a Jet version, but with the red/gray color scheme. After mocking it up for Jon, it turns out it doesn't quite work that well. If you want the explanation, read the next paragraph. Otherwise, skip it.

Jet, linked at http://pixelsage.com/newcb/5th-jet/, was designed with high contrast values. This worked with light blue and black, but changing the color scheme to red/gray messed up the color design. Since black turned into gray, the high contrast is gone, and Jet Red just looks like a bland, boring version of Jet. Almost like a n00b copying a well-developed site design.

So, after a short chat with Jon, I've decided that instead I will revamp the current default theme. It'll have a similar look, yet will have a more modern feel to it. One good reason I have for doing this is because we don't want to make you all stuck with a half-default half-jet theme. If I create something that matches the current default theme better, the transition will feel more smooth. Half of the site will have the old engine, half will have the new, but it won't look like you're staring at two completely different websites. Maybe only a little =P.

I'll try to port an updated BattleTech theme over as well, since that seems to be actively used. If I have time, I may port over some other themes, but we'll see. I've still got school, so this won't be a super fast process.

Any comments? Suggestions? I know some of you like CB as it is... but too bad. We're changing it ;)

Oh oh!!

Modern Mono!

Pretty please! ;)

Why? Can't get caught at work? ;)

Nah, I just prefer it. ;) Been using Modern Mono for as long as I can remember. ;)

I think people used the wordpad theme to not get caught at work. :P

Don't distract Pixel. :P

We need to get a theme that doesn't clash too much with default so we can start taking updated pages live. There are too many pages (about 170) for "just update everything all at once" to be realistic.

After the conversion is done we can start adding more themes again.

Mocking up the Default. Somewhat has a Jet feel on the right. Check it out!

yes modern mono for ever please cause its so less flashy and easy on the eyes and does not attract or draw attention... if you could make your jet like a modern mono as well as the others that would be worth seeing. the grey in modern mono just blends so easy with black and white; very nice and clean.

i would even like to try and make a modern mono with the new look so let me know what to do

Hmm... Why are we updating this?

"Mocking up the Default. Somewhat has a Jet feel on the right. Check it out!"

Looks nice! :D

A little known fact:

Pixel Sage is a Ninja. Not just that, but a Ninja Gecko. Them be rare.

Good job, Pixel.

Current progress isn't bad but I'm hoping that the logo in the top left is going to be a pretty standard CB logo without the 'fancy writing' as that part just looks horrible imho.

I find the default mock-up quite hideous.

I hope that we can have the option to select which layout we want -- old themes or new layout. However, I'm afraid that we're going to be forced to use the new layout...

Niiiiiiice! I felt that the red needed to stay, to stay cohesive with what Carnage Blender is about, a chaotic arena where blood spills at every second of the day :) Preview looks slick.

Also, this may be a stupid question, but is there any chance that the renovations will mess with the database, A.K.A, should we train our EXP as soon as we accumulate it?

I like the jet red :) Though I also hope you have time for modern mono haha for the exact same reason GL wants it :P

Ninja gecko! D=

Anyways, here's the ported theme. Still needs a tiny bit of work, but its mostly functional. For the pages that are coded. I kinda want to recode the settings page. Doesn't work too well. I'm getting tons of mixed messages about this, but what can I do? Jonocracy =P. I'm sure people who don't like it are more inclined to speak up, so for now this is gonna fly. That is, unless there's a serious problem that can't be overlooked, or Jon says otherwise.

However, suggestions/comments are still welcome. Just there's no guarantee it'll be implemented. Can't please everyone, after all.

Will the layout resolution be that big, or can it be made smaller? It seems rather large. Especially the drop-down lists

mm, I like the current minimilistic approach better myself. Too much space on the right side... will take some getting used to ;) Make no mistake, it is pretty, and the general movement these days is big big BIG icons and huge obviousness in buttons and such. (http://animoto.com/ and www.gridgistics.com for instance, nevermind general MS Best Practices and such).

Either way, I have some time to kill, throw some pages and such over, I'll see if I can't bust some out. Been awhile since I've flexed the web skillz, never mind did something for CB, too much desktop dev of late ;)

/\88/\

I like that one a nice homage to the old one ! Hmm a ninja gecko I can see you stuck to a wall and giving your eye ball a lick.

i think it looks great. i do believe that one of the reasons behind the revamp is to make it easier for others to create themes? if that is/was the case then perhaps all the ones who have a strong dislike for it will jump in and make more themes for us all.

We can definitely stretch out the content to fill the width, but the easiest way to do that would be tables, and as I understand, Jonathan wants no tables, except for places like battle progression and forums. I can also definitely size the content down if that's what the majority wants. I think the new design is much more newb-friendly.

Oh yes, and I can definitely size down the drop down list. I should probably customize its colors too.

Dudemus, you are correct. Actually, I think I was the one who first complained about the lack of flexibility in theming capabilities. Not sure if someone mentioned something before that.

> I hope that we can have the option to select which layout we want -- old themes or new layout.

Definitely not. But it should be possible to make a theme for the new css that makes it just like its ugly old self. :)

> We can definitely stretch out the content to fill the width, but the easiest way to do that would be tables

Let's just do fixed width, 960px. It's really really hard to make pages not look like ass when it gets *too* wide and I'm tired of trying. :)

If you are truly building a css engine, everything should use div id's and css classes that way you can style, move, float things around pretty much as much as you like. Making it fixed width really limits people who are using wider displays like myself (1900x1200).

I like what I see design wise from pixel, I do however have to say the red and gray theme is too boring, a light blue/white/darker blue theme would be much more aesthetic and appeal to a broader audience imo.

Haha, you mean like... I don't know, BattleTech? I think it's been decided that red/gray is the default theme that's wanted. Jon says it's the most commonly used theme (among supporters, I'm assuming). As far as widths... sometimes making flexible width limits artistic choices. It's the tradeoff for fixed widths. And no one is forcing you to browse websites full-screen =).

> Making it fixed width really limits people who are using wider displays like myself (1900x1200).

That's what I used to think, but if you render the current CB (or just about any other site) that wide it doesn't really gain you anything, it just looks like crap.

(My main monitor is also 1900x1200.)

I've updated the theme a bit. The sidebar didn't feel right, so I changed it. Also, the input and select objects are colored now, and smaller as requested. Check it out!

IMO The color scheme of the sidebar doesn't seem coherent with the color in the main window. They looked like two separate themes

I agree they do look different, the colours are a bit off, or is that just my screen? The sidebar seems to have a whiter grey and a lighter red.

The sidebar is definitely whiter, and the color scheme in general is lighter than the current CB default.

Bright/light colors hurt my eyes this early in the morning.

Aside from that, it looks pretty good. Smoother and rounder.

"Bright/light colors hurt my eyes this early in the morning. "

That's the reason I stopped using Swift and switched to BattleTech and Psionic Blue. There should be a light coloured one and a dark coloured one, dark is easy on the eyes.

The current default colour scheme works for me because it is so easy on the eyes. Too much in the way of contrast or brighter tones makes my head hurt after a while. Which, if you're spending a lot of time on a site, is a pretty important consideration.

I've given up on other text based games simply because I couldn't stand to look at them after a fairly short time.

Red is a really blatant colour though, so how does that work out for you? I thought that the theme most easy on the eyes was Blue/Grey, I used that for quite a while until I got bored of it, the default gets discomforting after a bit.

CB red is more like a blood colour; it's not a bright red, more subdued. That's why I can handle it.

In Firefox, the "out" hyperlink overlaps the "News" separator.

Aside from that, I liked what I saw a lot.

Is the sidebar still going to be adjustable? Just curious as you can't in the example, but then half the things don't work on it.

please please let me help you with this; i dont have enough eye bleach to continue looking at these default theme suggestions.

why they heck is everything so large? you have a 640x800 desktop or something??

I'll do some more darkening, and upon direct request from Jon and a few others here, try to get more of a "blood" red. The sidebar as I recall will not be resize able. After testing the site on a PC, I am getting a wrapping error in the navigation under the logo in the sidebar, and will fix that accordingly.

The reason why some elements are larger than the current default is because people are using HIGHER resolution these days, not lower. Thus, pixels are getting smaller (or screens larger). If the majority wants smaller elements, I can arrange for that. However, keep in mind that it may not be as newb friendly.

Personally, I like the idea of using blue for a default theme, since it is easier on the eyes, but as I understand red is the main color. Thus, if you prefer blue, you'll just have to make sure you're a supporter and choose the blue alternative I plan on making.

Please fix the "Log Out" text to be on ONE line, or let us adjust the sideframe...

I also dislike how "spaced out" everything is, which is what drudge mentioned. I don't want to have to scroll down 5 pages just to see my "External Transfer" button.

Oh, and good grief, if the Default is what the majority of supporters use, do they even KNOW that different themes exist? Almost all of the custom themes available currently are much better (in my opinion) than the default. I just don't understand how people like the red/gray...

Go Blue/Gray!!!

I agree 100% with SNK

Red/Grey Rules all!!
(yes, Grey with an "E", Don't go spell checking me!)

Perhaps if we renamed Red/Grey "Blood And Steel" some of the people who don't like it will come across to our point of view......

that does sound way more CBish.... Blood n Steel theme....but ya, cant wait til we get to choose from more than a few options.

go pixel! keep up the hard work! we appreciate the time you're putting into this!

I used Modern Mono for years, until I discovered how much faster the default theme loaded. Are we going to be testing the new engine for speed before it goes live?

Do you guys want a more, say bloody/grungy yet not disgusting look for the main theme? Thinking of what you've guys have spoken, the new default theme probably looks a bit too modern, no?

ah HA! Found kind of what I was thinking. Check it out.

Jonathan expressed that he would like the modern look to be finished first as the Default theme. Therefore, here's the new update. It's got some changes on the other pages besides the main, so check them out.

Old | New | Zipped Files! (For new Default and Jet)

darker red?

I'm happy with the calm modern look - I just like the colours on the default! That 'new' one you've done looks really good, although as Novice says, perhaps a darker red tone.

You're right. Darker it is!

What is the "Search" link going to do? Search by user name? If so, where do we search by character name? Will this be removed? Are the stats also going to be removed? If so, then where will the link be?

Good questions. Since Search is under character, it searches characters. Specify is under opponents... so I guess that only specifies opponents. Can you currently search for opponents? Jonathan can add the stats section. Also, all the drop-down menus I'm not sure if we've figured out or not. I think I'll let Jon code those in, then do graphics for them when it's finished.

Theme now has darker red. Check it out!

not to be a pain but on the homepage can we get something more separating the minion name, stats and items? It's all bunched together, something like what we have now, like a bar in a (slightly) different colour.

Also, aren't characters and opponents the same thing? Right now we use "Specify" to find specific characters and we use "Search by user" to find specific users. So you'd need one for opponents/characters and one for users.

Pixel, what's happening with the user pages, you said you wanted to make them more personal, I heard this a while back, I'm just wondering what you've planned for that.

But I thought people wanted it more bunched! D=

Yeah, you're right, character/opponent is the same. Maybe a certain option to pick if you're searching for a user or character? Is that possible in a dialogue box?

The "more personal" stuff is rather simple. Just a quote, website, email, and about me section. It's a tiny bit more than what we currently have (yes, TINY bit more), but it is presented much better.

Starting to look a little better but a few more bullet points for my concerns:
I'm still not a fan of the logo in the top left.
I agree that the character stuff being bunched together is a nuisance.
In my opinion the links should keep the same headings/titles, looking at the confusion already shown simply putting search and specify like that is a bad move, even with the positioning the way it is.

Just wondering... Will Verifex's scripts still work with the new look?

I imagine that the answer is yes, but I wanted to ask just in case.

The space between isn't that bad, Pixel. What I'm talking about is the formatting of the space basically, on the normal home page, the Minion name is in bold and on a bar with the minion stats, then under the bar there are the items. Did that make sense?

Would it look better if the red separators in the right panel ended before the end of the screen instead of going all the way across?

or if it ends after the side bar so its a straight line instead of a curved rectangle bar thing. either way, seems sort of lop-sided?

Oh, and I was just curious on the plans/ideas that you have for the forums? Or do they stay untouched?

I think it is starting to look very nice! However I do second the suggestion to space out the character information.

I also agree with what Sacredpeanut wrote.

Another solution to spacing out the info is to put a very thin separator between each minion. I think that simple modification would have the effects of making character information look more structured.

These may have been brought up before, but:

- sidebar grey background seems different than main page grey background.
- sidebar width is not adjustable. is this not possible with the new system?
- on the profile page, the chatmail box might be better on the left side of the page, similar to how it is now. Also, make it larger, or something... it doesn't quite look like a textbox, for some reason. Maybe change the border?
- also, the font in the chatmail box is _tiny_! Increase the size, please.
- on the view character page, the action links don't seem to be arranged in a useful way. Not sure how this can be fixed, but something should be done.
- on the view character page, the other info should be formatted in a better way. Maybe more table-like?
- where did the home button on the sidebar go? (please add this link in your mockup, so we can return to the main page while testing it)
- minion stats need to be formatted in a more readable manner.

The reds look good now.

I'd still like to get rid of the fade in the sidebar graphics.

The Art Institute Online. Week 1 Online Lectures. 2007
Wessels, Walter J. Microeconomics The Easy Way. Barrons. 1997

Even though the following messages are geared towards individuals, make sure you read all of it if you have commented lately.

@Zoglog[T]: I think you've been the only one who's expressed a dislike for the logo, so for now it stays. I think a simple solution the the search is to write as we have it now, "Search by user..."

@Talion: Verifex will likely have to modify or re-write the formatting for the script to work with the new design. The bars on the right go all the way across because that's the only way it'll work, unless I do fixed widths for them, which apparently some don't like. I already tried putting a line in between each minion, but because the line went all the way across, it didn't look good. I could however maybe add a background to the name of each minion, and see how that works out.

@Flamey: The stats were purposely played under the minion name to keep the width down. I can definitely try using squared ends instead of circle ends for the right side headers.

@Sacredpeanut: Hmm... I can certainly space them out. I think, however, that a better alternative might be to list a minion's stats and abilities in vertical columns next to each other?

@maelstrom: The sidebar gray is in fact a little different, but that was by design. The width is not adjustable, and yes, it has been brought up before. I think we deemed it unecessary, and it put an ugly white bar in between the frames. I can try to fix the textbox (along with the textfields) to look more like what they are. And yes! Tiny font... because people were saying it was too big... bah you people. For the action page... there are only three links. I don't think rearranging them would make any difference.

@Jonathan: They're not fades! They now just have the same pattern as the backdrop! D= Picky =(

@Zoglog[T]: I think you've been the only one who's expressed a dislike for the logo, so for now it stays.
I don't like the logo either, but that is currently a preference that we can turn off, so I didn't say anything. I hope we'll still be able to get rid of it!

I think that in most cases, the things we don't quite like about the new theme are that some simple formatting and arranging is different. If people just can't agree, then stick with something similar to the current theme.

And nitpicking aside, the new theme is looking _really_ good. Keep it up!

If more people express a dislike for the current logo, then they must say so, or I'll just not bother with it. I do agree that the formatting does look a bit weird, and I'm going to ask Jonathan if I can use tables to format the stats/abilities/items, because that seems like a good place to do so.

New Home Page and New Logo please

What exactly is it that should be changed about the logo? So I don't end up making one that people don't like again =)

it doesn't shout Carnage!! to me :P

Its all...EEwwww Posh!

if that helped (probably not)

Pix, are you really trying to perfect by committee? Because I guarantee you will never reach consensus, never mind unanimous approval.

I propose, so as to avoid crazy-making constant mulligans and to get the damn thing done, that you do whatever meets with Jon's approval and move on.

"...and to get the damn thing done..."

Seconded, and infinitely-ed.

I don't want the Ombudsman's link/button to be Jet Red. It must be rainbow flashing font. That one is a deal breaker. Please let me know when you are ready for my Baby Elephant Walk midi file. Or you can just use this one:

http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/3076/babywalk.mid

Alright, logo stays, and if you don't like it then hide it. Jonathan wanted this more "modern" theme, and the logo works fine as it is (even without a modern font). I did change to squared off headers for the right side, and it does look better. Text boxes look a bit more like text boxes now.

I've still got to change the sidebar headers to make Jonathan happy, but here's what I have.

It's beautiful!

<nitpick>
Just to confirm, to logo can still be turned off?
</nitpick>

Can we have things less spaced out?

Updated. Jonathan wanted a lighter background for the main area. I think it's final, for the most part. I believe the sidebar logo will still be able to be turn-off-able, but Jonathan, can you confirm that?

> I believe the sidebar logo will still be able to be turn-off-able, but Jonathan, can you confirm that?

Yes.

Update: Jonathan requested fixed width, so that's what I'm doing, and it'll conform to 980px total, with a 260px sidebar. Apparently the extra 20px is room for the sidebar, which is why we're not going with nice round 1000px.

However, good news for you themers who want non-fixed width. The width of the site is theme-dependent, so if you make a theme, you get to do whatever you want. Of course, for it to become official, it'll need Jonathan's stamp of approval.

I don't really have anything against full-width themes, I just don't want Default to be one of them anymore. :)

Did a lot of reworking. Here's the I think final thing. For those who want, you may download the most up-to-date stuff.

Oops, bad link. Here.

links are broken

the right side looks unstyled and ugly. maybe your browser is caching a missing file?

heres the latest for a modern mono on the new layout (am not done): http://pics.getblazed.net/modernmono.jpg

No, that was a mistake, it's already fixed =)

I don't always have my window at max size. When I went to your new layout, I wasn't able to see part of the bottom of the main-frame. I couldn't I scroll down with my mouse nor with my mouse-wheel. (Keyboard down-arrow works when focused on, though.)

When people load up chat, are they going to have the same exact problem since chat does take up a considerable amount of space of the entire max-sized window?

BTW, same effect happens when you look at /battle.html. I have to use my mouse-wheel click button (I hate that) or focus the screen, then use my keyboard (I hate that, too).

Perhaps you're leaving out an automatic scroll-feature in your CSS coding, perhaps? I don't know CSS very well, so it's just a possibility, though I would think that the browser should do this automatically.

Yeah, weird. I'll see if I can fix this. I've updated yet again, with some filler blood splatter stuff. Be sure to clear your cache.

Ah HA! Found the little CSS bug that disabled scrolling. Well, not but, but rather mis-coding. Should work now.

When will CB be changing to this layout?

Over time.

Can you fix how the equipped items look on the minions? They look quite disorganized and out-of-place with the drop-downs either next to the item, or below it.

(I'm still not happy about how 2 minions (where one minion only has some items equipped, the other nothing) can take up almost half of the page (including my chat, which is roughly the largest it's set to be), but I guess there's nothing I can do but bicker about it. ;))

BTW, how do you expect to fit long-itemed names with weapons all in that small box, you call 960 px without looking crammed together? Ah, well, not my problem, eh? :)

> Can you fix how the equipped items look on the minions?

+1

> BTW, how do you expect to fit long-itemed names with weapons all in that small box

If we can't we are screwing over people with 1024x monitors which is supposed to be the minimum. So this will force us/me to be more disciplined. :)

let me get at this new code, pixel, so i can update the modern mono im working on. thanks!

Don't mind the stupid, but, uh, what's +1? ;)

Drudge: why can't you just steal his .css file from the site?

@drudge: I did upload a recent one. Check the posts. I'll upload another one once we get this finalized. Jonathan doesn't like the blood spatters >=(

@SNK4R: That means he seconds your opinion. Because you opinion (1) plus his opinion (+1) equals 2. Capice?

Anywho, I've fixed the few things, added a table to organize equipment. It's good that I have you guys to test this, because it looks different on PCs. Even on Firefox. Here you go.

Oh, and SNK4R, I did actually end up changing some of the HTML files, which is why I think drudge wants me to compile them for him =)

@Jonathan: Better? No blood spatters.

yeah, that's a keeper :)

LoL, now that's a shrine of Jon. :P

Back to blood spatters. Anyways, does anyone care to give an alternative to the blood spatters? Or what do you think of them?

blood splatters are visually iller than a ebola patient; keep 'em

let's just go with no bg for now. if you get inspired at some point we'll revisit it.

No background it is. Is this theme finalized? At least for the coded pages.

is this the place for latest default css? http://www.pixelsage.com/newcb/Default/default.css

pixel: yes

drudge: yes

Are you leaving all the drop-down boxes below the item name now? That'll eat up a lot more space. Then again, it probably won't fit for both equipped items on the left and right of a minion, so...goes back again to the 960 pixels.

Eh, I can't really find anything else to nit-pick about. Then again, I've lost interest. ;)

Maybe one more thing: How about moving the cash back up on the same line as the MPR and PR? Looks kinda of funky to me, but hey, what do I know? :P

The drop-down to me is next to each item. The cash is in the same line to me. I'll test in firefox now.

The drop-down to me is below. Here's a screen shot of my screen:

Any difference now?

No.

Try clearing your cache and reloading like heck. At the very least, the money should be on the same line now.

BTW, why is it when I refresh the page (just by hitting refresh icon), TAB (1) shows up in the opponent drop-down, but when I hold SHIFT+Refresh it loads Pixel (9,999,999)?

Seems odd to me.

I know how to clear my cache. ;)

The cash is on the same line; that's fine, but the drop-down still not fixed/changed.

I have no clue. Jon will take care of that part anyways. It's just a mockup.

Just you wait until he starts to import it and has a hell of a time fixing things. :)

Weird, works fine for me in firefox.

maybe its a resolution thing with SNK4R

Using 1280x1024.

If we're already having problems with larger resolutions (than minimal), how're you gonna make the 1024x768 (et al) people happy? ;)

mine is the same as SNK4R and i have similar resolution 1280x800

One solution is to simply stack weapons on top of armor.

On my screen the cash is with PR/MPR but the drop down lists are beneath the items. I'm on 1280x1024 I think.

I don't mind the boxes below for now.

I'm planning to modify that part anyway after the re-theme.

update for the modern mono new theme look (should pop new tab/window):
Click Me!

Awesome stuff, druge, really. Glad you got this stuff working! I think it reflects the current theme really well. Keep up the work!

I see the same thing as SNK4R using firefox. The combo boxes appear under the weapons/armor. My resolution is 1680x1050.

I'll re-do leetblender, just point me to the "default" place where this stuff is.

*excited*

based off little knowledge of HTML/CSS this is actually easier to theme for? When I glanced at the current theme code it didn't look that complicated, this one looks more complicated, maybe because it's sexier, I dunno.

I'm going to create a new CSS file, sort of like a base code thing, with instructions in the CSS file. Whether this is harder or not depends on what you mean by "harder". Easier to do more flexible stuff? Definitely. Any which way, if you're experienced in CSS, it should be no problem.