NUB money rewards halved (in Changelog)

AdminJonathan December 11 2007 9:17 PM EST

Glory was sufficiently stubborn in his insistance that I made a mistake recalibrating the NUB money bonus back in July (when I made it so that their BA cost was automatically deducted from their earnings) that I checked. And he was right. Thanks, Glory.

The NUB money bonus has been reduced to 1/2 what it was in July, or 1/3 what it was before that.

The forging bonus (for those NUB forgers still receiving one) has been similarly fixed.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 11 2007 9:20 PM EST

thanks jon & thanks glory for making jon take another look at it.

Fembley [Water Warriors] December 11 2007 9:24 PM EST

Uncool, not really making any money anymore.. =/

Flamey December 11 2007 9:25 PM EST

was theory that Jon said right? And only the calculations wrong? Is it now that the cost of BA was deducted from their rewards?

Talion December 11 2007 9:25 PM EST

I am not 100% certain, but I think the change also affected the NCB rewards...

Talion December 11 2007 9:27 PM EST

Nope, I was just getting crappy rewards is all. Looks normal now.

Thraklight Resonance December 11 2007 9:30 PM EST

And to head off complaints from NUBs in this thread.

<Jonathan> If I were _really_ going to fix it I'd deduct that extra cash retroactively. Don't complain too loud. :)

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] December 11 2007 10:08 PM EST

Thanks very much Jon, and Glory =)

Iluvatar[NK] December 11 2007 10:11 PM EST

Heh. I noticed that my money rewards were taking a significant hit, and wondered why.

Still, even though I'll be relatively poorer, I think this change will benefit the game on the whole. Less abuse and all that.

Thanks, Jon!

CrimsonBlaze December 11 2007 10:20 PM EST

I don't think is a really good way to control the economic... This method will only be effective for the higher lvl user but not NUB users.
By cutting the money gain for a NUB users will cause slow down to their growth due to the lack of equipment which require big amount of money unless for those job who does not require good equipment.
By cutting the money gain by NUB users will decrease the economic flow within the NUB users where the older users still have constant cash flow within them. This is due to the only source of CB$ from NUB users is from the fighting. This may cut down the survivability of NUB users.
Maybe there are some players using multi account to gain profit from NUB where I am not sure of it.
This is just some of my opinion, please don't flame on me... Just sharing out my opinion only...
By the way I was enjoying in this game. Let make the game a better world :-)

Ulord[NK] December 11 2007 10:25 PM EST

Thank you Jon.

I have a 3 paragraph post outlining why the cash reward is ridiculously high for nub. Now I can spare people the agony of reading it. This is a terrific change.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] December 11 2007 10:28 PM EST

Crimson, Keep in mind that you will still make more money than any other users.... Just because your Cash rewards took the hit it was originally supposed to, you should feel thankful that you got the bonus as long as you did in the first place.... that is some extra cash in your pocket that others Nub won't have....

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] December 11 2007 10:29 PM EST

Plus your BA is still free =o

CrimsonBlaze December 11 2007 10:34 PM EST

Ya i was thankful to what i get now, just tat sharing an opinion. I don't bring any intention of complaining and flaming :-)

Ulord[NK] December 11 2007 10:34 PM EST

You know what, I WILL post the 3 paragraph rant to clarify the fact that this fix is justified, and not an attempt to squeeze the nubs.

"Well let's look at the numbers right now. I've never owned an nub but from what Illuvatar told me, they make 500k+ after about 100kPR. From my own NCB, I make about 150k - 200k a day fighting. The nubs fight 50% more than I do and get 214% extra cash. So let's just assume they get 600k a day over the life of their nub career. That's 600k*7*16 = 67,200,000. Remember this is CASH, from fighting alone.

Now if we were to convert that into actual NW, if the nub is business savvy and instas a lot, you'll at least be able to multiply that by 1.5, depending on what type of team they run. That's over 100mil NW. Now I don't know how far nubs can actually go MPR wise so correct me if I'm wrong. From what I see with Iluv's Four Kings, he'll probably reach the early 1.8mil to 2mil range by the time he's done at the best estimate. Now look at the current characters in that power range. Most have nw around 70mil barring the usd spenders. Remember guys, I am talking about fight reward ALONE. No income form usd buying is accounted for. No income from trading (which makes up 50% of my income) is accounted for. No forging was done in place of fighting. No contest rewards. All of this at the most conservative estimate.

An nub would end up with nw well above another character who has played for a while at similar MPR by the time he's done. At least 40% more assuming all he did the whole time is fighting. There is something incredibly wrong with that. You want to make nubs competitive at high level? Why would they need to be that much wealthier to do it? Not to mention the fact that it'll take them another 8 months at least to even get close to 2.5mil mpr and top 10 spots, with the top players growing relentless in the mean time. So more time to accumulate more wealth. It would be no surprise for an nub to have 200mil nw by the time he gets there WITHOUT spending usd and that's not right."

This is why I think Jon's change is reasonable. Feel free to debate me for it.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] December 11 2007 10:36 PM EST

I know M8... I was just pointing out the biggest fact about your rewards still being bigger than anyone else's out there... And you have only been here a month and have 18 mil nw... plus standing cash... thats more than alot of Vets can say that they did in their first month...

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] December 11 2007 10:38 PM EST

You must work from some hefty losses for buying BA if 0.3 * rewards versus free purchasable BA (1/3 total BA possible) amount to the same net cash total.

Not that I care how you arrive at it really, the change is good for the game.

Little Anthony December 12 2007 12:05 AM EST

I still do not know what's going but after a short conversation with Atomicboy, I was told at at his level, to buy his third minion, it will cost him 36millions cb2?! Is this change will be effected me, as a new player, to look at the potential upgrade in the number of minions in the future? If i am going to buy 3 minions at later point, let's pick Atomicboy's character level for example, I will need 36 millions x 3? Is it possible (even a slim chance) for me to make that happen?

TheHatchetman December 12 2007 12:09 AM EST

Your monetary gain will outpace your minion cost ever so slowly...if you start saving from nothing when your minion costs 36m and dont spend any money the whole time you fight and save, you can buy the minion probably somewhere near 50m-ish.

Furthermore, the more expensive minion will cost you 1/3 of the total XP on your largest minion. So having multiple minions will skew the minion cost, as it will skew XP spread...

QBOddBird December 12 2007 12:09 AM EST

Well, if you plan on buying 3 minions at the end of your NUB, you'd probably better be saving for that instead of blowing your money all over the place everywhere else.

But think about it, we CB'ers buy minions for our team and we have to buy BA.

NUB'ers before you had to buy minions for their teams and they had to buy their BA. (no, BA has not always been free.)

I think you'll manage.

Little Anthony December 12 2007 12:15 AM EST

Now i know why my mentor told me to best be a mage. Doesn't look like there is another option, is there? Maybe the minion cost for new player can be considered?

Ulord[NK] December 12 2007 12:21 AM EST

To An:

Think about what buying minion means. This is the only chance you ever get to buy exp. You essentially get a huge mpr boost every time you buy a minion. You pay a hefty cost, but you get more than your money's worth. All players who want to follow your strategy (start with 1, buy 3) need millions of cbd, funds only possible through spending usd. There is absolutely no reason to give nub a free ride when everyone else has to spend 200 usd +, and experience must be bought for a fair price as MPR is more precious than any nw. Ranger's MPR gap is exactly why he's the most dominant.

That being said, there are other strategy out there that can compete effectively without having to hire minions down the road. You have many options. Don't do whatever everyone else is doing and do things one way. Since all the top players already know strategy 100 times better than you. They know all the old tricks better than you. You won't win with the old tricks. Make new tricks.

Is that hard? Hell yea. I don't think I can manage the dedication to do it myself. But being the best in anything should never be easy. Above all, have fun with the game. Don't make it work. Find what amuses you.

QBOddBird December 12 2007 12:22 AM EST

Minion hiring is optional, An, not something that necessarily needs factoring in. Do you really need the money to run a full-blown tank that can compete with the USD tank at the top -and- have the money to hire 3 new minions? I think you can come up with the answer to that one yourself.

Sickone December 12 2007 2:44 AM EST

Well, seing how I usually get in only about 700 fights per day (and that's a relatively active day), the "free BA" make up roughly half of my income level, not one third as some of you say the "theoretical" level is.
Seriously, do you guys actually get online every 5-6 hours or less to spend your BA before it stops accruing ?!?

No idea how things are for the "regular" characters, but I found I was making money way too easily compared to how much "valuable stuff" costs.
The change seems only fair.

TheHatchetman December 12 2007 2:51 AM EST

"Seriously, do you guys actually get online every 5-6 hours or less to spend your BA before it stops accruing ?!? "

Most of us do when we can. Of course rl issues > CB, but when its convenient, why not?

Sickone December 12 2007 2:57 AM EST

The "prepare for sleep, fall asleep, sleep well, wake up, wash up, eat, prepare for work, etc" cycle takes up to 10 hours in one sitting most of the time, if not more.
That alone is 100 BA or more lost almost guaranteed on a regular basis daily :)

Probably not the best place to ask, but how come BA isn't stored up to, say, 12 or even 24 hour's worth or so ?

Khardin December 12 2007 3:11 AM EST

As your character grows, you'll get slower refresh rates. It's kept this way because it rewards dedication and keeps the forums and chat more active.. or that seems to end up the consensus opinion, if i remember correctly.

Lumpy Koala December 12 2007 3:24 AM EST

"Probably not the best place to ask, but how come BA isn't stored up to, say, 12 or even 24 hour's worth or so ?"

Then we couldn't really reward people who wake up every 4 hours just to not miss any BA, right? Or even risk being caught by managers at work or teachers at school? :P

Sickone December 12 2007 3:27 AM EST

You want to reward OCD-like behavior ? :)
Oh well, sounds reasonable enough for a game.
I mean, most games do, so... :)

QBJohnnywas December 12 2007 4:12 AM EST

Having never had a NUB I'm afraid I don't feel anyone's pain here. And, as on a good week I can make near to a million and a half in cash...and I have to pay for BA if I want it.

There's still a lot of money to be made out there.

Good catch Glory; quick on the fix Jon as ever.


Flamey December 12 2007 7:47 PM EST

Sickone, I only have to come here ever 7.5 hours and I'm at 7/20. It'll be somewhere near 8 hours or a bit more if I get to 6/20 and you can practically not miss any BA and get 8 hours sleep which is alright.

TheHatchetman December 12 2007 7:51 PM EST

"you can practically not miss any BA and get 8 hours sleep which is alright."

Who is actually able to get 8 hours of sleep? I honestly don't think I know anyone that gets their 8 hours a night...

QBOddBird December 12 2007 8:47 PM EST

Good point...I never get 8 hours, and it isn't even because of CB, since I've retired from competitive play. Thankfully I just finished my last final of the semester!
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