New Player need Help: Evasion/DB question (in New players)

Little Anthony December 30 2007 10:14 AM EST

after a month of trying out carnage blender, i have been using evasion and db combo for evading at start and it has been doing well but not anymore. Here are few problems i am facing and I really need help understanding and re-strategy if need to be:
At my range now, most archer can really kill me in 1 or 2 shots due to huge weapon. My evasion appears to be about 79 (overall) and my DB is still about 69. (finally number of this combo is?). I know i am close to evade a few archers at my range of score because i can evade about 3 out of 4 shots.(though 1 shot is enough to kill me : character- Guitar Hero III for example).
Should I : Keep this combo and pushing the + on DB and exp linearly into evasion? or Throw away the boots and get Elven boots (like Atomicboy) and go totally evasion? or Throw away Evasion and push everything i have to upgrade my DB? I am trying to see what's best later so that i do not have to change much. Any help is great. I would like to thanks in advance.

QBOddBird December 30 2007 10:26 AM EST

Here's your situation:

Evasion gives a negative to PTH, as well as providing Defensive DX equivalent to its level. During ranged rounds, it receives a bonus according to the round (more info in Wiki). This bonus increases both the Defensive DX and the -PTH, making a minion with Evasion very difficult to hit.

DBs provide a negative to PTH as well, but with no Defensive DX. Their bonus is also -not- multiplied during ranged rounds. Last, they do not stack their -PTH with Evasion's effect linearly: instead, the level that it would take to get the -PTH on the DBs is added to the level of Evasion (post-bonus). I.E. if it takes 700k to get (79) Evasion and it takes 500k to get (69) DBs, then one would have effectively a 1.2M sized Evasion, with 500k of it not being increased via ranged bonuses, and with only 700k Defensive DX.

The advantage to this is that DBs can be pumped with cash easily, allowing a player with a very large hoard of cash to rapidly increase his/her -PTH. The alternative to DBs are EBs, which will simply increase the existing Evasion by a certain percentage. The advantage to this is that by increasing the Evasion skill itself, you are allowing the extra -PTH and Def. DX gained to be increased by the ranged multipliers. Not only that, but you aren't gaining just a minus to PTH, but also Defensive DX, whereas DBs only give one, and with no bonuses.

In other words: If you can afford a pair of huge DBs, you'll easily be better off with them than with EBs, as they can add far more -PTH total. However, EBs and other Skill-boosting equipment will increase both your -PTH and Defensive DX from Evasion, and allow them to be multiplied during ranged rounds. With a very large Evasion, this can be an enormous effect.

Hope that helped you out. ^_^

KittehShinobu December 30 2007 10:27 AM EST

the reason is because if DB is the same level as your Evasion, they dont add together... but rather you need to divide your DB+ in half, THEN add it to your evasion. The higher Evasion is to your Db's, the less + you get when you divide your DB's. Since all the Db+AoI do is just add to the experiance of Evasion. ^_^ All the Elven gear, except the weapon and armor, just pump up DX and all trained skills... so its a debatable... lets say you gotten the EB, EG,EC... all them are at 20+ each... that gives you only 60% + to your DX and skill exp. ^_^ where as if you had your skill eva at 100 and trained your DB's to 100, you get 150 evasion total. Thats -150 off of the opponents Pth, making a huge amount of archers crap their wallets out. ^_^

Little Anthony December 30 2007 10:38 AM EST

Note to self and to share with others.
" <Rubberduck[T]> evasion multipliers are 2.33, 2, 1.66, 1.33 now"

KittehShinobu December 30 2007 10:47 AM EST

final number follows 69 is not the same as 79 so boots cant be 34.5 added... its between 95eva - 105Eva

KittehShinobu December 30 2007 10:50 AM EST

now what OB was saying... is there are 2 ways of doing this... If you want to focus on directly clipping off opponent's -pth, then the DB boots are the best way to do this. since they can hit alot more higher -pth than the Eb, Eg, and Ec combined. But if you want to focus on higher Defensive Dx, then the eb, eg, ec are recommended. Its all debatable as to how you want it.

KittehShinobu December 30 2007 10:57 AM EST

Personal experiance with Evasion... and using EB's to this effect.. I had like 100 evasion with the % up by only 15(since it gets VERY expsensive beyond that) it would be like 95 without the boots on. but remember, the higher the Eva level, the more exp required to even get close to making it higher.

Tyriel [123456789] December 30 2007 5:51 PM EST

Basically, EB vs DB looks like this:

DB are better with small (or non-existent) evasions or large sums of money
EB are better with large evasions or less cash to spend.

A 10% bonus from EB on a 5m level Evasion will do a lot more good than DB of the same NW. On the other hand, if your evasion only has a level of 100, DB are better than EB. Make sense?

Basically, figure out how much you want to (or are planning on spending) on DB. See what level that will take your evasion to (convert + on DB to a level, add it to your Evasion). Compare that to what you would get for ~+25 EB and an increase in the rest of your equipment (EC, EG, AoF, etc), and see where that gets you.

If you have a decent evasion, EB will probably be better for you than DB, unless you have lots of money to spend.

AdminNightStrike December 30 2007 8:12 PM EST

If you want to look at the endgame scenario, look at the NW cost of EB and DB in the wiki. Which can you afford? Do you intend to buy CBD with USD from players? If so, get a massive set of DB (over 200), and you'll be ok.

Remember that when upgrading equipment, DB can usually be forged at around 70% of the NW gain, whereas EB cannot. Further, you can't push EB much beyond the 30s.

QBOddBird December 30 2007 10:28 PM EST

Although we've got the biggest pair of DBs as:

Dancing Boots [0] (+238) worth $133,253,056 owned by Mikel (King of Pain)

and the biggest pair of EBs as:

A Pair of Sandals [10] (+34) worth $24,885,442 owned by Mythology (The Last Airbender)

so there's no telling how big they'd be with 133M pumped into them...unless Myth wants to give us those numbers...I'm willing to bet that would make for one heck of an Evasion with 133M split between all Elven gears + AOF .

AdminNightStrike December 31 2007 2:20 AM EST

Not really. The gain for going much past the 30s for elven boots is smaller than the gain for bumping DB by the same amount. When it's $20m for one more percentage of Evasion... it doesn't compare. Well, it does compare.. but DB are better.

AdminNightStrike January 8 2008 2:50 PM EST

"but rather you need to divide your DB+ in half, THEN add it to your evasion."

I just noticed this post in the thread. For all reading, it's incredibly wrong.

TheHatchetman January 11 2008 2:20 PM EST

DBs are broken down to an evasion level, based on their +. For this example, I'm using the old evasion numbers so some things may be off, but the concept is still the same:

to get an evasion effect of (50), you need 159,449 evasion. Say you are using +50 DBs, this will effectively add 159,449 to your evasion level, without a ranged bonus, and without conferring defensive DX. Say you train an evasion level of 159,449. combining that with +50 DBs would not add (50) to your evasion giving you an effect of (100), it also wouldn't just add half... 159,449 (DB's evasion level) would be added to your Evasion level to figure out a final effect, which in this case would total to be 318,898 (with only trained Evasion and that boosted by AoF and Elvens conferring defensive DX), for a final effect of (67). So in this instance, +50 DBs are effectively removing an additional 17 pth.

Now DBs become more/less useful than EBs depending on situation, boot level, and evasion level.

With 30k Evasion, you would have an effect of (23)... adding +25 EBs to that would give you an effect of (26), but it would also increase your defensive DX... Meanwhile adding +47 DBs (chose this number due to it having similar net worth to +25 EBs) would create a final effect of (51). So in many cases, if defensive DX is not a large concern, Evasion + DB is the way to go for lower level evasions...

Now, with 1m Evasion, you will have an effect of (111)... adding +25 EBs to that, you will end up with a final effect of (122), along with AC and defensive DX... Meanwhile, adding +47 DBs would leave a final effect of (117), without adding defensive DX or AC.

Now, say you have 1m Evasion (again, i know... the wiki page doesn't go much higher...) granting an effect of (111), and you add a pair of +80 DBs. While this won't add any AC or defensive DX, it will boost your final effect of evasion to ~(137)

The difference lies in your budget, due to the upgradability of DBs as opposed to EBs... with EBs, points staqrt becoming expensive in the mid-20s... If what you need is a bit of extra AC or defensive DX, or you are on a low budget, EBs are the way to go.

DBs are cheaply upgraded into the hundreds (cheaply per point anyway, getting there is still quite expensive), so if budget isn't really an issue for you, and maxing your evasive effect is top priority, and you don't need the AC or defensive DX to do it. Go with DBs.

Like I said, the numbers may be off due to the recent rescale, but the concepts still hold true ^_^
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