ToE/Randomness issues... (in General)

I've noticed that the endurance effect seems to wear off to an extent when my ToE wearing minion dies... I cant really test this practically against anything other than spread damage (try telling a tank to hit your tank, then your enchanter, then your tank again :P)

Anyways, in the below examples, damage got well over twice as strong when the spread was gone (usually 3-6 times stronger), and i was under the impression that more concentrated, but still less overall damage was done against fewer minions... Is the aura supposed to go away when the holding minion does?

The randomness issue comes in the fact that it is difficult to test these things with such large variances (though the damage increase was still more than noticable)... I tested against The four kings, as he is a CoC user, which will help to avoid the skewing of numbers via ranged penalty...

Against The Four Kings

Fight 1

Round 3
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (581897)!
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [31015], The Great Milenko [61040]

Round 4
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (581897)!
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [267625]

Round 4 damage = 8.628* round 3 damage (now what the hell?? :P)
Fight 2

Round 3
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (581897)!
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [29876], The Great Milenko [44251]

Round 4
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (581897)!
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [145099]

Round 4 damage = 4.856* round 3 damage

Fight 3 (he must've changed something here, but numbers are still relevant...)

Round 3
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (579093)!
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [62680], The Great Milenko [85293]

Round 4
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (579093)!
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [177552]

Round 4 damage = 2.83*Round 3 damage (this is the only one i could see being attributed to randomness)

Fight 4

Round 3
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (579093)!
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [88682], The Great Milenko [87604]

Round 4
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (579093)!
Im 'Emperor' Yo-Hwan's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [400702]

Round 4 damage = 4.57*Round 3 damage

The description for CoC:
The canonical direct damage spell. Damage is spread equally among its targets; if less than 5 targets are present, damage is correspondingly greater.


It certainly shows in your case...

I've used CoC before with a NCB i ran. I noticed the fewer minions they had the more damage i did to each individual, but my average overall damage was less. I've used FB on many many more occasions (started with a SFBM, and have used many FBs in tourneys, and even recently was going to NCB as a SFBM...), and found more minions = more overall damage. Yet i get the same results against FB mages (Can't get entirely reliable numbers with FB because on top of randomness issues, there's also ranged penalties to consider, couple the two for chaos...).

These numbers may seem incomplete, but I've been watching this for days now, paying careful attention to these number variances. If it was ~1.4-4* damage difference in between rounds, i could be content in believing it's spread/randomness doing the trick. But that's obviously not the case, unless I'm missing something else...

When 2 minions are alive, damage is spread into two, and each of them is reduced by the ToE (up to 75% max reduction).
When only one minion's left, the CoC damage "breaks through" your endurance, delivering much more than the 25% of total post-AMF damage you were used to.

I'll do some more tests against lower FB/CoC that shouldn't be able to break my ToEs cap even without the spread, though that is an interesting (and excellent) point that I probably shoulda considered >.<

If you would also post the AMF cast percentage alongside your tat's level, it would be easy to calc wether the things you see fall under "normal" or "weird"...

Against Frenchman

Fight 1

Round 1
ATH-W5000 takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (382553)!
ATH-W5000's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [4461], The Great Milenko [7998]

Round 2
ATH-W5000 takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (382553)!
ATH-W5000's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [13185]

Round 2 damage = 2.95* Round 1 damage

Fight 2

Round 1
ATH-W5000 takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (382553)!
ATH-W5000's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [5382], The Great Milenko [10037]

Round 2
ATH-W5000 takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (382553)!
ATH-W5000's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [9988]

round 2 damage = 1.85*round 1 damage

Fight 3

Round 1
ATH-W5000 takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (382553)!
ATH-W5000's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [5074], The Great Milenko [7257]

Round 2
ATH-W5000 takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (382553)!
ATH-W5000's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [15159]

Round 2 damage = 2.987*round 1 damage

Fight 4

Round 1
ATH-W5000 takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (382553)!
ATH-W5000's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [4361], The Great Milenko [8268]

Round 2
ATH-W5000 takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (382553)!
ATH-W5000's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [8636]

Round 2 damage = 1.98*round 1 damage

You were right on the numbers before. I wasn't doing the reverse math to realize their total damage was over my ToE cap. Figuring my level of AC + AMF should be enough to put most DDs below it.

ToE is 2.15m and named. AMF % doesn't matter in this, as it has no bearing in reliability of damage due to it being constant through the whole fight...

And apparently the spell checker doesn't like our minion names... This would be a very long thread to put <br> after each line like i would need to in order to take advantage of the <nospellcheck>. So I figured I'd tell you about my trials and tribulations with spell checker issues.

On a pretty unrelated matter:

his mage-W5000 takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (382553)!
his mage-W5000's Cone of Cold hit The Ringmaster [4461], The Great Milenko [7998]

SWEET! :P

Shuddering to think of the numbers you'll get with AC 400+, especially against physical damage :)

That is how the ToE works. Once damage exceeds 4/3 of some figure based on tattoo size the ToE effectiveness starts to be reduced. Splitting FB/CoC with multiple minions helps to keep blow size below this threshold. Have you not noticed that you get zero to very little reduction versus a big elb?

Puma has 1,710,000 ST with a x3750 bow

"Puma shot The Ringmaster [309606]
Puma shot The Ringmaster [255719]
Puma hit The Ringmaster [210381]

Puma hit The Ringmaster [181612]
Puma shot The Ringmaster [221718]

Puma shot The Ringmaster [270409]
Puma struck deep into The Ringmaster [250142]
Puma struck deep into The Ringmaster [230148]"

nah... reduction looks about right... :P

"his mage-W5000 takes damage from his own Cone of Cold (382553)!"

How come the backlash damage is not random? Is that normal?

I thought backlash damage was from the spell itself, so that should be random too... no?

Backlash damage is always from max damage on a single minion, not reduced by own AC/Prot, just ToE (or ToE aura).
Or, at least, that's what the wiki says.
Nerf AMF !!!1oneone
;)

what's wrong with fighting ET, check the damage and average it (use only 1 round of damage, say second range round on tank), then swap the minions to TE and use the average damage from the same round (I think DD and range do more damage in the first range round then third).
I think AoI would work as well, except I think AoI has some DB or AC effect.

On a semi related note:

Monkey Business defeated The Ringmaster (The Dark Carnival) after 2 rounds of combat

Charlie's explosive shot hit The Ringmaster [398118], The Great Milenko [175510]
Charlie's explosive shot hit The Ringmaster [359439]

Charlie's explosive shot hit The Ringmaster [283041]
Charlie's explosive shot hit The Ringmaster [446904]
Charlie's explosive shot hit The Ringmaster [238499]



:P

ES woulda been a great way to test that too :P didn't think about it as I still haven't been to sleep yet :P

Puma hit The Ringmaster [910163] Puma struck deep into The Ringmaster [1157811] The Ringmaster missed Puma R.I.P. The Ringmaster Puma struck deep into The Great Milenko [1565269] Puma struck deep into The Great Milenko [1628759] Puma skewered The Great Milenko [2092528] R.I.P. The Great Milenko Gotta love broken BGs.