reinstate the bonus xp for lesser minions from cb1 (in General)
the only reason i could see for getting rid of it, as nothing was put in place to replace it, is a rolling bonus being implemented at some point. if that is not going to happen, i think lesser minions team really need some help keeping up with kill slots, item effects and tats. even using a roe is harder for single minions than multiple.
either that or allow single minions more skill slots, spells slots or item slots. the ability to add a coi or mcm in addition to a tat would help some. i would rather see the old xp bonus return though and be retroactive!
February 8 2008 9:28 AM EST
The biggest problem I have had with running a single minion tank team has always been AC; but then we can build rather large evasions on a single minion team, even without the help of the RBF - and a large evasion is far more effective than AC....if you're only up against tanks that is.....
Anyhow, the ability to use power shields with a tattoo on a single minion would be nice, and CoI for tattoo mages even better.
But I'd prefer a bonus to XP....although I suspect a lot of people will want the RBF minion exempt from that idea lol.....
even when i was using the rbf though it didn't allow me to fight up at all. which means i received lesser rewards and lost ground on the top five continually. it did not allow me to win against anyone of near equal or higher mpr except maybe one character. what it was very good at was allowing me to stalemate against them, no xp is rewarded in that situation though.
Even if you really wanted to run a high AC Single minion, there is absolutly no reason not to add a TSA PL minion to your set up.
Instant regening 10% damage reduction to whatever your Single Minion would have Taken.
At least the RoBF gave a reason to stay single. XP concentration is the only thing going for a single minion.
February 8 2008 9:40 AM EST
I'd agree. I love running single minion teams. And the focused XP is the best thing about them.
But I've always hit a point where they stop being as effective, despite that. For instance, the big 4 minion teams around the top...50 or so have tanks that are fairly equal in size, if not bigger than my guy who was mostly raised single. And not only that, but they've 1,2,3 even four more kill slots. And never mind the opportunity for enchantments....
February 8 2008 9:54 AM EST
There's enough other factors that allow multiple minions to be competitive that this isn't necessary.
"There's enough other factors that allow multiple minions to be competitive that this isn't necessary."
if that was supposed to read single instead of multiple, as the highest mpr single minion in the game i am not seeing them so maybe you could enlighten me?
February 8 2008 10:00 AM EST
dude, the bonus was for MORE minions, I believe. Jonathan's comment seems to confirm that.
Jonathan, I would agree multiple minions more than make up for it. Too much so, in fact, from a damage reduction and leech scenario. Too many items allow damage reduction and HP redistribution, and those layers become very powerful on 4-minion builds. I thought it was all due to AS/GA back in the day, but even after investing heavily in massive DM (I can fizzle NWO'S GA! Whoo-ooo! *smile*), it falls far short. PL/TSA/ToE/MgS/VA and VA-leech weaponry is still too strong (even for teams that have smaller MPR and aren't directly created as a mage foil).
Yea the bonus was for multiple minions. I assume it was to offset the potential xp gains from buying minions.
hmm, maybe i was wrong then, i always thought the lower number on the team, the more xp you received in cb1.
if that is not the case, then that is what i am asking for here in cb2 regardless. the reasons this are needed are kills slots, items/skill/spell slots and the multiple items effects as well as others.
February 8 2008 10:24 AM EST
I agree, though I would just rather see the upside for multi-minion teams be reduced. Sadly, the trend to keep making multi-minion teams MORE viable continues with the introduction of the AoL...
I think lesser minions have a lot of cool aspects (concentrated XP, option to buy into MPR later, just to name two), so if multi-minion synergies/layers/auras were toned down (in power, not complexity -- synergistic strategies are fun), I think it would all be equitable without needing an experience bonus for lesser minion teams.
February 8 2008 12:16 PM EST
> i always thought the lower number on the team, the more xp you received in cb1
nope, other way around.
> Sadly, the trend to keep making multi-minion teams MORE viable continues with the introduction of the AoL...
single minions are just kinda ... boring. I'm not saying I want to make them completely unviable, but a CB full of single tanks and single mages is unappealing.
February 8 2008 12:23 PM EST
Then you might want to get around to considering an Evasion or RoBF nerf (or both), or else there might be a preponderence of something even MORE boring: single minion RoBF teams! *smile*
February 8 2008 12:28 PM EST
Yes, I am considering what to do about that next changemonth.
when you nerf evasion or the RoBF, nerf the ranged damage then too.
Or at least nerf the belegs down to .5%
February 8 2008 12:38 PM EST
Thanks for the response, Jonathan!
February 8 2008 12:54 PM EST
looks like the time is coming where i will be changing my strat lol :) ADAPT MORTALS!
thanks as well from me for the input jon. i have suspected changes on the horizon and will await them.
while single minions aren't completely unviable now, i do think they are somewhat to quite unviable presently.
"single minions are just kinda ... boring."
Heh! I'm the other way around. ;) Due to the options open to you, I find multi minion teams more boring. ;) Want both AMF and EC? That's easily done with two plus minions, but if you're single, with only the one slot, you need to figure out how to get both the effects you want. ;)
Plus staying single means you can't cheap out with an easy Wall/PL Battery. :P
i can empathize with not wanting single minion teams to rule the game, but in my mind only if they are overpowered would they rule. if they were brought up to par, that wouldn't make them rule the game any more than they do now.
if they are to stay underpowerd and unloved, i am wondering if we should add something to the wiki to let our influx of new members know that single minions are at their best only ever going to be "not completely unviable" and therefore hiring minions at some point is a must to do well in the game.
February 9 2008 2:58 PM EST
=( I don't like being weaker because I don't have the creator's preferred number of minions. Oh well.
To be fair, the change to linear train costs made multi minon teams slightly weaker compared to lesser ones.
February 9 2008 8:19 PM EST
"=( I don't like being weaker because I don't have the creator's preferred number of minions. Oh well."
Why should the creator have a preferred number of minions and then base changes off that..?
"To be fair, the change to linear train costs made multi minon teams slightly weaker compared to lesser ones."
while i agree with your statement, i still do not see that offsetting kill slots, equipment and item slots, enchantment and skill slots and the new item aol. i almost forgot the compounding you can get with multiple item effects as well.
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