DD spell idea (in General)


Talion February 27 2008 9:46 AM EST

Spell name: Lifeline
Range: 4
Targets: 5
Effect: 10% of spell level (50% if cast on one minion)

Lifeline directly drains 60% off the damage done to target minions back to the caster as extra HP. Here is the catch... AMF and GA backlashes send 30% of the damage done to the caster back to each target because of the Lifeline effect.


King February 27 2008 10:25 AM EST

if I'm reading that correctly it seems extremely rigged you're giving the caster the range of FB with a VA effect which archers can't get effectively unbalancing ranged in your favour.

This spell would also nullify the whole point of AMFs backlash by sending it's damage at the AMF caster anyways which no other skill can do, tanks can't get rid of EC cast on them so i believe there shouldn't be any built in EO nerfs.

Overall it would have to do next to no damage to be considered balanced by anyone.

If any spell gets added i vote for FoD.

QBsutekh137 February 27 2008 10:28 AM EST

So, a defensive DD spell?

Not sure who would be able to invest in this to make it worthwhile... Not much point in keeping your team alive if you aren't dealing out any damage, and it is hard to have two large minions on one team (one for defense, one for damage).

Then again, because of the defensive nature of this, the Lifeline DD mage would almost be like an enchanter (but would have to stay alive to work).

I would worry that if this worked, it would be TOO powerful -- it would be yet another regeneration spell to go along with PL/TSA/VA, etc. It would make those tight 4-minion PL/Wall builds that much more impossible to crack, even with AMF (because one could use NSes and basically just have a positive healing spell...)

Nifty idea, I just worry that people would either disregard it entirely, or it would be too powerful. It's like an AS enchanter except it gets to keep firing every round as long as it is alive...

King February 27 2008 10:44 AM EST

If sutekh has this right i think it would belong more as a skill because it isn't really doing Direct Damage to anything in which case it's just an improved PL

QBsutekh137 February 27 2008 10:52 AM EST

Well, except for the AMF aspect, which is why it sort of fits as a DD... But I'm not sure I have it right, since I am not sure it is self-targeting from the original description...?

Yes, it does sound a lot like PL, except the caster actually gains HP by the sound of it, not just reducing it.

Colonel Custard February 27 2008 10:52 AM EST

Fairys: it does do damage, though. You ever played Pokemon? It's like Leech Life: you do a little damage, and half of the damage you do comes back to you as HP.

I think it's a nice idea.

One question:
"Here is the catch... AMF and GA backlashes send 30% of the damage done to the caster back to each target because of the Lifeline effect."
Let's say I have this DD spell trained, and I get hit with GA. Does this sentence mean that 30% of the GA damage I receive goes back to the target that I originally hit, or does it mean that 30% of the damage I take from GA goes back to the minion I hit as extra/regenerated HP? If it is the latter, as I suspect, then good job. I think it's excellent.

Colonel Custard February 27 2008 10:55 AM EST

"It's like an AS enchanter except it gets to keep firing every round as long as it is alive..."
AS casts on all minions on the team, whereas this sounds to me like it helps to keep only the damage dealer (i.e. minion with Lifeline trained) by giving HP only to that minion.

Talion February 27 2008 11:00 AM EST

For clarification, this...

"AMF and GA backlashes send 30% of the damage done to the caster back to each target because of the Lifeline effect."

... means that part of the AMF and GA backlash damage get transfered back to the targets as extra HP *for them*. So the caster is actually sending HP back to the targets.

In other words, if the Lifeline spell level is not high enough, the targets can potentially end up gaining extra HP because of the HP transfered from the caster to them via AMF/GA backlash.

So the Lifeline created between the caster and the targets would be bi-directional.

Talion February 27 2008 11:10 AM EST

Example:

Sorceress takes damage from his own Lifeline (22641)!
Sorceress's Lifeline hit A Target[51171]
Sorceress Gains HP from a Lifeline to A Target (30703)!

A Target Gains HP from a Lifeline to Sorceress (6792)!

{cb1}Linguala February 27 2008 11:35 AM EST

I like the idea a lot, but like it's been said, with VA, TSA and PL, this could(and probably will) overpower multi-minion teams.
Aside of that, it's a great DL(direct life) spell.

QBOddBird February 27 2008 11:36 AM EST

What about Powerline instead?

Sorceress calls teammate from his own Powerline (22641)!
Sorceress's Powerline called A Teammate[51171]
Sorceress Gains HP from a Powerline call to A Teammate (30703)!

A Squirrel gets zapped on the Powerpole (6792)!

King February 27 2008 12:48 PM EST

i have to agree with ling and sut this would overpower 4 minion teams with pl because of it's range(5 rounds of extra hp with a hoc if you don't wear a corn) it would have to resemble an underpowered CoC to be somewhat fair.

A 60% drain couldn't be laughed at at higher levels 20% like a morg or BoTH might make it a little more balanced.

Talion February 27 2008 1:09 PM EST

"A 60% drain couldn't be laughed at at higher levels 20% like a morg or BoTH might make it a little more balanced."

Could be true. The numbers were just thrown out there and can be adjusted. However, I am convinced that the HP granted to the opponents using GA and/or AMF would definitely balance the % out.

AMF, for example, deals a constant backlash unaffected by AC. So multi-minion teams capable of casting a 40% or 50% AMF would really be devastating to Lifeline characters. For example, opposing minions wearing MgS combined with another minion casting a high AMF or GA could actually gain more HP than the damage dealt from Lifeline.

I think it would really generate new and interesting strategies.

QBOddBird February 27 2008 1:30 PM EST

I think it would necessitate longer # of rounds, as well...

ActionAction February 27 2008 7:46 PM EST

Well, for me, I would prefer it to be a single target spell, like MM, but with the HP leech spread across your own minions. I'm not sure if that would shift it towards the overpowered or underpowered side, but to me it makes more sense. Upping the % effect, and lowering the % drained would make more sense if it was targeting one minion. I would certainly use a front-to-back RANGED DD spell :D.

About the AMF/GA damage thingy - I would hope only AMF affected Lifeline's amount of reabsorbed HP by the opponent. I also think that the damage taken by the opponent and the damage reabsorbed should simply be combined at any rate - if the damage from AMF is static, then the amount of damage returned as HP to the opponent will also be static, so why not simply combine the two by reducing the displayed damage accordingly? In this way, it would be a static reduction of damage taken, AND HP absorbed by the caster. GA is just funky, so yeah.

ActionAction February 27 2008 7:58 PM EST

Oh, and as a sidenote, does VA, MH, and BoTH leech let you gain HP above whatever you started with? Just wondering in case Talion hadn't thought of whether HP would be capped or not. I really, REALLY think it would be interesting to see non-dispellable (although countered in other ways) HP being generated on a team.

QBOddBird February 27 2008 9:29 PM EST

yes they do, A!A!

Obscurans February 28 2008 1:19 AM EST

Also, ToE/NS reduces AMF, DM reduces GA, so:

single minion, enough HP, evasion, lifeline, DM, pro if you want
HoC/corn, ToE, NS (definitely better than AG now), etc.

Seems powerful, all leech effects get better with ToE (your HP is worth more), but if it also increases the actual effect of the DD... decay you don't even worry about since you're leeching all day.

And being single minion also prevents "spread HP" dilution.

Talion February 28 2008 7:11 AM EST

"Seems powerful,"

Would be very weak against any team of more than 2 minions. 5% effect would do little damage and kill nothing in ranged. Any team with base Decay and a smallish DD spell would own your single minion Lifeline character in its sleep.

QBOddBird February 28 2008 11:13 AM EST

The problem I've always seen brought up with this is how it lengthens battles, since a skill/DD like this is best used with a defensive setup...it would be a struggle not to stalemate

ActionAction February 28 2008 11:30 AM EST

Well, OB, considering how much focus there is on the first four rounds of battle, I wouldn't mind seeing a defensive spell that lengthens it :).

QBOddBird February 28 2008 11:31 AM EST

...except adding more HP isn't going to matter in the case of being wiped out in the first couple rounds. If it was close, then yeah, that could extend it. Generally, though, ranged is a hit-or-miss thing, and if they hit, you lose...

ActionAction February 28 2008 11:37 AM EST

Well, you did say that Lifeline would be most likely in a defensive set-up, and although ranged damage is still massive, I don't think it's improbable that Lifeline would help against MM and FB, and, depending on which version of Lifeline you take, SoD as well.

Talion February 28 2008 11:40 AM EST

"... it lengthens battle ... it would be a struggle not to stalemate."

Ok... and that is a problem because?

I think most high MPR fights do not last long enough (except when using those awful Evasion/RoBF strategies).

Having a way to make more fights last past the 15th round would be fun.

And AA... I like my version of the spell better. :P

QBOddBird February 28 2008 1:15 PM EST

"Ok... and that is a problem because?"

Simple: Because win, lose, draw is all better than a stalemate. It's the only scenario in which you get NOTHING, whether you're the attacker or defender.

Not only that, but once you enter the ~20th round consistently in battles, randomness begins to determine whether you get a win/loss or stalemate. That's REALLY lame.

And checking all the top characters, the majority consistently get between 5 and 15 rounds, which is a pretty safe zone. Sutekh tilts it towards the bottom end of that scale, novice and Little Devil tilt it towards the upper end, etc.

Talion February 28 2008 1:29 PM EST

"Simple: Because win, lose, draw is all better than a stalemate."

That is not a problem, it's a personal preference.

QBOddBird February 28 2008 1:32 PM EST

...but I'm somewhat sure that everyone prefers to win, lose, or draw, rather than get zero rewards. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the only way to gain MPR?

ActionAction February 28 2008 7:37 PM EST

Well, first of all, I certainly don't believe Lifeline would lengthen things to the point of a stalemate. If it is, then obviously something would need to be adjusted.

Now, someone is going to skewer me for this, but looking at the top is not always a completely accurate representation of things. Of course I'm not saying that it should be disregarded completely, but if you take the point of view that Lifeline would be a balanced DD spell (as it should be) with specific counters, then stalemates shouldn't be a problem - no attacker is going to train a skill that makes you stalemate every single time ;/.

I still really like the idea behind this spell. A new way to generate HP for the non-Tank teams :).
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