Evasion Idea (in General)

Soxjr March 31 2008 6:49 PM EDT

I was thinking of evasion ideas that didn't hurt one group too much. Here is what I came up with. How about the defensive dx of evasion only counts off the trained evasion?

Here is what I mean. If you trained 3 mil evasion and get it to 6 mil evasion with elven and AoF you only get the 3 mil trained towards the defensive dx. So in round 1 you would get 6 mil defensive dx... not 12 mil because of the elven... You still get the 6 mil effect of the 200 or so with elven, but the defensive dx part is only off what you have put exp in. I feel that will help out non-usd tanks because we can maybe get a dx hit by round 4 or 5 or 6 even though our weapon may never get there but other usd tanks can keep doing what they are doing and the evasion people can keep trying to keep up. I am one of the biggest dex people out there at 3.8 mil with ToA and everything and I just talked to Draco and his evasion without elven I hit in round 5 and 6 which would be when I would hit him if the defensive dex didn't take into accoutn his elven gear. With elven I never hit him because his defensive dx even in melee is 6 mil. I hope this made sense and I would love to hear what people think of this idea.

miteke [Superheros] March 31 2008 6:57 PM EDT

I was thinking the other day another flavor would be to have evasion affect + and X instead of + and dex. Then it would truly be a NW foil.

QBsutekh137 March 31 2008 7:03 PM EDT

I don't disagree -- it's just a variation on a theme, though... Variations in ranged multipliers, quelching the double-dip mature of Evasion's defensive dexterity...etc.

One of the simplest ideas has just been to make the Evasion curve harder. A curve can be made to match whatever Jonathan wants. Ranger is consistent in his stance -- he doesn't like so little MPR (comparatively) beating such large NW. Again, I don't disagree.

So why not just adjust the curve?

This is off the top of my head on what people have said about Evasion:

-- Don't count all of the defensive dex.
-- Don't multiply the defensive dex.
-- Require equal-sized DBs to make it all work.
-- Tie Evasion to another stat, thereby diluting it (this is an OBVIOUS example of "why not just change the curve then?)
-- Require an item (new one) to let Evasion work as well as it does.
-- Lessen the ranged multipliers.
-- Lessen some of the ranged parts of the multipliers.

Aren't these all (this is maybe one-third of what really has been proposed) just a different way of saying: "Make Evasion harder to use, and/or make it less effective." The most options there should be are 2. Not 20.

Let's get straightforward. If not, why not?

Soxjr March 31 2008 7:11 PM EDT

I don't think my idea is saying that at all sut. I don't have a problem with the curve of it. Draco has the 4th highest evasion trained in the game. He should get a good effect out of it. I am just looking at how imposible the multiplier is looking. He has about 3 mil trained evasion and 6 mil with elven. That is a difference of 6 mil defensive dex in round one to 12 mil defensive dx in round 1. If the multiplier only counted trained evasion instead of the added evasion because of elven then he would still get his 215 or so effect which would mean that only huge usd weapons would hit thru it or someone that trains 6 mil dx or close to it would hit based on a dx chance. There is no way a person can have 12 mil dx. I'm at almost 1.9 mil mpr and solo tank with a 60 mil nw toa and I have been adding to nothing but dx for over a month and i'm still only at 3.8 mil dx. I'm just thinking that this small change wouldn't kill evasion and make it useless, but it would give certain people a shot at actually hitting some evasions out there ... even if they don't use usd.

If you just change the curve... then the defensive dx in round 1 would still be close to 12 mil ... and then the negative dx would still lower your cth to where you never will hit no matter how big your bow is.. even if the effect is lowered to a smaller amount. That is how I have seen evasion explained and how I have read it. So this would change that a little and give non-usd tanks a shot.. maybe. lol, but it also wouldn't nerf evasion so badly that it becomes non-existant. I mean really how many tanks have almost 4 mil dx.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 31 2008 7:44 PM EDT

without some kind of weapon or nw cap, anything that makes it easier for non-usd tanks to hit will also make it easier for usd tanks to hit. this would in effect be a melee buff and evasion nerf all rolled into one? despite what you have seen posted, the usd buffed weapons are doing quite fine against evasion and everyone at the top is not switching to mage strategies as of yet.

i will reiterate my stance once again, any valid solution really needs to address usd pumped weapons or nw in general as well as evasion, together and simultaneously.

i do like your idea and if it had a weapon cap or nw cap counterpart i would say kudos. i tend to agree with sut though, once we somehow cap weapons nw, i really think the simplest and cleanest solution will be to just adjust the evasion curve cost.

Ulord[NK] March 31 2008 7:47 PM EDT

Tmr is April 1st, guess we'll have to put up with the wacky trinity that is usd, evasion and RoBF madness. Oh and what Sut and dud said :)

Soxjr March 31 2008 7:53 PM EDT

I see your point dude, but they are hitting no matter what, like you said, and this change only affects those that are willing to put in tons of exp into dx to fight it. Which is the only way a non-usd has a chance of hitting. Right now the evasion on dude with his 12 mil defensive dx in round 1 puts me at about negative 8 mil defensive dx. So I'm thinking my cth is 1 in NEVER. There is no way at almost 4 mil dx I should be able to go to negative 8 mil dx... from a skill he has only 3 mil lvl's in. Just doesn't seem close to right ... I don't care how you look at it. USD or not.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 31 2008 7:58 PM EDT

right, so if we nerf evasion without capping usd in some manner, then we are giving the game over completely to usd. i do believe that jon is on it, and we may not have to wait for another change month to see the changes. in the past he has surprised us with non-change month changes when it warranted it. i could be wrong though and it wil be another few months.

i guess that all we can do is wait and see, unless our benevolent creator graces us with his plans...i can totally understand why he wouldn't though, as we would really burn up the boards then if he didn't stick to exactly what was said and when.
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