JKF and Junction: the final thread (in General)


AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 14 2008 11:48 AM EDT

To: AdminJonathan Sent: May 10 4:25 PM EDT Delivered: May 13 1:26 AM EDT
I'm trying to figure out how to document Junction not xfering the UC bonues properly to the JKF. What data would you like to see specifically?

From: AdminJonathan Sent: 3:31 AM EDT Delivered: 11:24 AM EDT
added UC to post-battle stats

--

I won't be able to test the JKF till I get home tonight.
Get out there and do some testing... this means you Bast!

QBOddBird May 14 2008 11:49 AM EDT

Sweet!!!!

Talion May 14 2008 1:13 PM EDT

Yeah!

Shouldn't this thread be in the Change Log forum?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 14 2008 1:21 PM EDT

Ok, I looked at some stuff with my JKF. Without anything equipped my JKF has 40 UC. When I equip my EB it changed to 77 and when I equipped HG it changed to 91. AoF did not change anything. The only thing about this is I also have a UC minion and his UC is 2360. Thats quite a different number.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 14 2008 1:29 PM EDT

It was 97 not 91 and this is with both EB +22 and HG +13. Without anything equipped on my UC minion he has 1280 UC. So It looks like JKFs UC ramps up very differently from normal UC.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 14 2008 1:48 PM EDT

It looks like to me that the UC shown on the battle page is the x part of UC. With 64 effect UC I have 1280 on the battle page and with 118 effect I have 2360.

For JKF it seems that he either trains basically no UC, which cant be right because I get triple hits every so often with him when I have an AoL on and when I equipped the HG it didn't ramp it up like crazy. Or the x part of UC for him is exactly the same as his pth. This seems more correct as I got a 20 boost from +13 HG which is what should have happened to his pth. The EB seem to boost it a little too much though in that case, 37 for +22 EB. If x is the same as his pth this would mean that his damage is based almost entirely off of his str.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 14 2008 1:50 PM EDT

Nem: we need the size of your HG and EB, the level of your JKF, and any other numbers you can give. I already suspected that the AoF wasn't working at all but it's nice to see confirmation.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 14 2008 1:51 PM EDT

A Jigorokano Familiar lvl 1,495,337
EB +22
HG+13

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 14 2008 1:52 PM EDT

Nem: remember the EB boosts 150% of what it normally would

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 14 2008 1:53 PM EDT

hmmm maybe that's just STR and DEX... not skills... otherwise the AoF would be insane

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 14 2008 1:53 PM EDT

I know that, but even for +33% getting a 37 boost to effect from 40 base is a bit much.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 14 2008 2:00 PM EDT

Something to note. Each effect of UC adds 20 to the UC on the battle results page for a normal UC minion.

TheHatchetman May 14 2008 2:03 PM EDT

I was under the impression CMs were meant to be private... But here goes nov, airing out Jon's dirty laundry in front of everyone... Shame, dude... For shame!

Anyway, good luck making the JKF more usable :D

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] May 14 2008 2:20 PM EDT


Test? I have already pointed out that I think it's kinda broken since I don't have to train Junction anymore. :P

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 14 2008 2:25 PM EDT

Junction at 1.0, no items.
Max tattoo: 236,004
Total Evasion 24
Unarmed Combat 8
STR 47,201
Dex 78,668
-
With You've been robbed [4] (+13)
Total Evasion 24
Unarmed Combat 29
STR 77,883
Dex 78,670
-
With An Amulet of Focus [0] (+11)
Total Evasion 24
Unarmed Combat 8
-
UC minion with the same gear.
300,347 74,280 29 8
-
Taken right from post battle stats.
Kano-san Nabby
Total Evasion 24 23
Unarmed Combat 8 160
-

It appears the JKF never got the change for the X that normal UC did.


AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 14 2008 2:26 PM EDT

Bast: hmm good point... I guess I'll have to figure out what the actual ratio is now since 1/5 doesn't seem right any longer...

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 14 2008 2:28 PM EDT

Its still 1/5 of my tat lvl for me to junction to 1.0

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 14 2008 2:34 PM EDT

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QBBast [Hidden Agenda] May 14 2008 2:34 PM EDT


A Jigorokano Familiar lvl 6,190,386
Junction 1,258,889 999,119 1.00 0.81

I'm guessing I've added close to 200k to the Jig since last I added anything to Jxn, and I didn't really have any extra in it so far as I'm aware.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 14 2008 2:35 PM EDT

that's with Nabby wearing the same HG (and no AoF) that bring the JKF to UC 29... both from a raw level of 8

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 14 2008 2:38 PM EDT

6,294,445 would be the level at which you'll have to train again... didn't you switch to an AoF from an AoI?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 14 2008 2:43 PM EDT

The naming ran out on the tattoo!

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] May 14 2008 3:15 PM EDT

10 round win vs. Violent Femms w/ HGs +13

Kano-san
EXP
HP 3,925,163
ST 2,414,250
DX 3,868,991
AC 76
Total Evasion 91
Unarmed Combat 222
Damage Inflicted 884,467


10 round win vs. Violent Femms w/o HGs

Kano-san
EXP
HP 3,925,167
ST 2,135,686
DX 3,868,998
AC 59
Total Evasion 91
Unarmed Combat 202
Damage Inflicted 1,166,377


Yeah?

Colonel Custard [SeeD] May 14 2008 3:38 PM EDT

With Unarmed Combat 7,419,838 (209), I have 4180 Unarmed Combat in my post-battle stats. This is on a regular UC minion, not a Jiggy, but I figure I could help with data collection on how the number increases (i.e. linearly with level or step-wise as a multiple of effect or on a curve relating to one of the two).

I'll take off my HGs, put on a BoM, take off my EBs, etc. to get more data points. Be right back.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] May 14 2008 3:57 PM EDT

has anyone noticed that for regular UC minions... that all you do is multiply the UC level by 20 to get the effect... like 209 = 4180 And also that effect seems like it would be the X of the weapon since it is known that the UC effect is the PTH and Evasion in a sense.

Colonel Custard [SeeD] May 14 2008 4:11 PM EDT

Gah, DrAcO! Here I was coming back in here all triumphantly with my testing results, about to reveal the secrets of Unarmed Combat, and then you ruin it.

Yes, according to my testing, a level (200) UC will have an effect of 4000 in post-battle stats, and level (226) will be [4,520], regardless of what the trained level is.

With my minion, I was only able to change my level in multiples of 20 by re-equipping UC-boosting gear. However, some of the results in this thread indicate that a is Jiggy apparently able to hit fractional amounts in between, such as 222 (which would mean an effect of (11.1) UC?) and 8 (which would be (.4) UC?). It is clear, therefore, that UC works differently for minions and Jiggy's, and that may be the source of the difficulties of applying Junction to them.

In case anyone still cares, here are my test results, with numbers in brackets representing what we now assume to be weapon X.

Unarmed Combat 8,767,926 (226) [4,520]
Unarmed Combat 8,356,455 (221) [4,420]
Unarmed Combat 8,195,817 (219) [4,380]
Unarmed Combat 7,958,057 (216) [4,320]
Unarmed Combat 7,724,889 (213) [4,260]
Unarmed Combat 7,570,871 (211) [4,220]
Unarmed Combat 7,420,119 (209) [4,180]
Unarmed Combat 7,419,838 (209) [4,180]
Unarmed Combat 7,123,115 (205) [4,100]
Unarmed Combat 7,049,511 (204) [4,080]
Unarmed Combat 6,762,138 (200) [4,000]
Unarmed Combat 6,761,883 (200) [4,000]
Unarmed Combat 6,412,636 (195) [3,900]

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 14 2008 10:11 PM EDT

It's more simple than that with the JKF... it's just not using the new damage multiplier system.

It's also not gaining total evasion for levels in UC from items, and gains neither total evasion or UC while wearing an AoF.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 15 2008 12:26 AM EDT

I would like to point out that JKF seems to gain no pth when junctioning EB, EG, or HG. In all cases I hit at exactly the same rate against the same opponent. Without any equips my JKF triple hits around twice in 30 rounds. When equipping EB or both EB and EG or HG he would still triple hit around twice in 30 rounds. and this is with changing UC from 40 to 77, 83 and 97 respectively.

forktoad May 15 2008 12:47 AM EDT

So what is the base damage for UC?
Assuming that for each level 'y' increase we get a '20y' change in damage multiplier can we consider the base damage to be 20?

So based on that assumption is UC weapon calculated as
[20 x 20y][+y]

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 15 2008 12:51 AM EDT

Based off of what I have seen, I believe that the base damage is somewhere near that of a vb. I would say anywhere from 60-65.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 15 2008 10:36 AM EDT

In addition... when I equip a Kite Shield I end up with a minus 5 to UC... Junction and the JKF are strange friends.

Colonel Custard [SeeD] May 15 2008 2:07 PM EDT

"Nem: remember the EB boosts 150% of what it normally would" Huh? When did that happen?

Yesterday, I did some testing on DrAcO. He took all armor off of his front minion (moved it so that Evasion guys wasn't in front) and I hit him for 25 rounds with UC. My multiplier number was a little under that of his MH, with my ST about 300k higher than his. I was hitting in the 800k-1mil damage range, which he says is very close to his damage with the MH. This was very haphazard, uncontrolled testing, but it makes it appear that UC's base damage is probably somewhere near 80. Previous belief based off of someone's (I can't remember whose) testing was that base damage was near that of a Katana, or 74. So possibly a bit higher base damage than previously expected, but same vicinity?

That's all I've got for now, sorry. If someone with (20) UC wants to test damage vs a x400 katana and a x400 morg (and a x400 VB, why not?) against unarmored minions, I think that would help. It's more realistic than asking someone to up a Katana to x4620 or whatever.

[RX3]Cotillion May 15 2008 6:43 PM EDT

A Dagger [4x1] (+0)
An Amulet of Might [0] (+8)
A Pair of Black Leather Boots [10] (+22)
A Helm of Ecthelion [6] (+12)
Spirit of Danica Maupoissant lvl 1,009,098

Junction: 1.00 / 0.86

Kano-san
HP 463,571
ST 393,547 25
DX 629,676 24
AC 52
Total Evasion 44
Unarmed Combat 57

A Dagger [4x1] (+0)
Spirit of Danica Maupoissant lvl 1,009,165
Junction: 1.00

Kano-san
HP526,076
ST 209,906
DX 349,843
AC 0
Total Evasion 44
Unarmed Combat 32

Without Gears VS 71 AC Protection (29) 401,430 STR minion.

#1 :Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 4 / 4 / 72,133 Damage Inflicted: 288,534
#2: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 4 / 4 / 65,844 Damage Inflicted: 263,376
#3: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 3 / 3 / 58,402 Damage Inflicted: 175,208
#4: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 2 / 3 / 58,426 Damage Inflicted: 116,852
#5: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 3 / 3 / 54,216 Damage Inflicted: 162,648

With Gears VS 71 AC Protection (29) 401,430 STR minion.

#1: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 6 / 6 / 85,465 Damage Inflicted: 512,790 *3 double hits*
#2: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 6 / 6 / 82,661 Damage Inflicted: 495,967 *3 double hits*
#3: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 4 / 4 / 95,108 Damage Inflicted: 380,435 *1 double hits*
#4: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 6 / 6 / 83,861 Damage Inflicted: 503,168 *3 double hits*
#5: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 5 / 5 / 83,701 Damage Inflicted: 418,509 *2 double hits*

forktoad May 17 2008 10:05 AM EDT

Just a suggestion for UC improvement:

What if UC PTH somehow affected the PTH of the ranged weapon in the ranged round?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 18 2008 11:33 PM EDT

I compared the damage of the JKF with a BoTH with a similar x to the UC on the post battle results and a similar str. The damage was very similar. So the JKF is using an almost base weapon.

I used my JKF who has 42 UC on post battle stats and a BoTH with x50. The BoTH user had a little less str but the the damage was usually within 10k of each other.

QBOddBird May 19 2008 12:21 PM EDT

sooooooooo......fixed?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 19 2008 4:35 PM EDT

I sent Jon a cm...

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 19 2008 4:49 PM EDT

List of things needing fixing with JKF.

1) x modifier for UC needs to be x20 per pth. (most important thing)

2) AoF affecting UC on JKF.

3) evasion being based off of effective UC. (regular UC works off of effective level while JKF works off of base, so one of them needs to be switched)

Basically the UC JKF uses hasn't been updated along with the times.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 23 2008 2:54 AM EDT

I wonder if the old style UC is used on purpose? The damage doesn't seem as low as if it really was just above base.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 25 2008 12:10 PM EDT

I'm going to assume that Jon's silence is related to us having made some gross mistake in our logic... I guess it's time to look some more.

Usul [CHOAM] May 25 2008 12:12 PM EDT

maybe it will only be changed in the change month?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 25 2008 12:15 PM EDT

bugs are normally fixed when they are found...
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002R7p">JKF and Junction: the final thread</a>