JKF and Junction: the final thread (in General)
To: AdminJonathan Sent: May 10 4:25 PM EDT Delivered: May 13 1:26 AM EDT
I'm trying to figure out how to document Junction not xfering the UC bonues properly to the JKF. What data would you like to see specifically?
From: AdminJonathan Sent: 3:31 AM EDT Delivered: 11:24 AM EDT
added UC to post-battle stats
I won't be able to test the JKF till I get home tonight.
Get out there and do some testing... this means you Bast!
May 14 2008 11:49 AM EDT
May 14 2008 1:13 PM EDT
Shouldn't this thread be in the Change Log forum?
Ok, I looked at some stuff with my JKF. Without anything equipped my JKF has 40 UC. When I equip my EB it changed to 77 and when I equipped HG it changed to 91. AoF did not change anything. The only thing about this is I also have a UC minion and his UC is 2360. Thats quite a different number.
It was 97 not 91 and this is with both EB +22 and HG +13. Without anything equipped on my UC minion he has 1280 UC. So It looks like JKFs UC ramps up very differently from normal UC.
It looks like to me that the UC shown on the battle page is the x part of UC. With 64 effect UC I have 1280 on the battle page and with 118 effect I have 2360.
For JKF it seems that he either trains basically no UC, which cant be right because I get triple hits every so often with him when I have an AoL on and when I equipped the HG it didn't ramp it up like crazy. Or the x part of UC for him is exactly the same as his pth. This seems more correct as I got a 20 boost from +13 HG which is what should have happened to his pth. The EB seem to boost it a little too much though in that case, 37 for +22 EB. If x is the same as his pth this would mean that his damage is based almost entirely off of his str.
Nem: we need the size of your HG and EB, the level of your JKF, and any other numbers you can give. I already suspected that the AoF wasn't working at all but it's nice to see confirmation.
A Jigorokano Familiar lvl 1,495,337
Nem: remember the EB boosts 150% of what it normally would
hmmm maybe that's just STR and DEX... not skills... otherwise the AoF would be insane
I know that, but even for +33% getting a 37 boost to effect from 40 base is a bit much.
Something to note. Each effect of UC adds 20 to the UC on the battle results page for a normal UC minion.
I was under the impression CMs were meant to be private... But here goes nov, airing out Jon's dirty laundry in front of everyone... Shame, dude... For shame!
Anyway, good luck making the JKF more usable :D
Test? I have already pointed out that I think it's kinda broken since I don't have to train Junction anymore. :P
Junction at 1.0, no items.
Max tattoo: 236,004
Total Evasion 24
Unarmed Combat 8
With You've been robbed  (+13)
Total Evasion 24
Unarmed Combat 29
With An Amulet of Focus  (+11)
Total Evasion 24
Unarmed Combat 8
UC minion with the same gear.
300,347 74,280 29 8
Taken right from post battle stats.
Total Evasion 24 23
Unarmed Combat 8 160
It appears the JKF never got the change for the X that normal UC did.
Bast: hmm good point... I guess I'll have to figure out what the actual ratio is now since 1/5 doesn't seem right any longer...
Its still 1/5 of my tat lvl for me to junction to 1.0
A Jigorokano Familiar lvl 6,190,386
Junction 1,258,889 999,119 1.00 0.81
I'm guessing I've added close to 200k to the Jig since last I added anything to Jxn, and I didn't really have any extra in it so far as I'm aware.
that's with Nabby wearing the same HG (and no AoF) that bring the JKF to UC 29... both from a raw level of 8
6,294,445 would be the level at which you'll have to train again... didn't you switch to an AoF from an AoI?
The naming ran out on the tattoo!
10 round win vs. Violent Femms w/ HGs +13
Total Evasion 91
Unarmed Combat 222
Damage Inflicted 884,467
10 round win vs. Violent Femms w/o HGs
Total Evasion 91
Unarmed Combat 202
Damage Inflicted 1,166,377
With Unarmed Combat 7,419,838 (209), I have 4180 Unarmed Combat in my post-battle stats. This is on a regular UC minion, not a Jiggy, but I figure I could help with data collection on how the number increases (i.e. linearly with level or step-wise as a multiple of effect or on a curve relating to one of the two).
I'll take off my HGs, put on a BoM, take off my EBs, etc. to get more data points. Be right back.
has anyone noticed that for regular UC minions... that all you do is multiply the UC level by 20 to get the effect... like 209 = 4180 And also that effect seems like it would be the X of the weapon since it is known that the UC effect is the PTH and Evasion in a sense.
Gah, DrAcO! Here I was coming back in here all triumphantly with my testing results, about to reveal the secrets of Unarmed Combat, and then you ruin it.
Yes, according to my testing, a level (200) UC will have an effect of 4000 in post-battle stats, and level (226) will be [4,520], regardless of what the trained level is.
With my minion, I was only able to change my level in multiples of 20 by re-equipping UC-boosting gear. However, some of the results in this thread indicate that a is Jiggy apparently able to hit fractional amounts in between, such as 222 (which would mean an effect of (11.1) UC?) and 8 (which would be (.4) UC?). It is clear, therefore, that UC works differently for minions and Jiggy's, and that may be the source of the difficulties of applying Junction to them.
In case anyone still cares, here are my test results, with numbers in brackets representing what we now assume to be weapon X.
Unarmed Combat 8,767,926 (226) [4,520]
Unarmed Combat 8,356,455 (221) [4,420]
Unarmed Combat 8,195,817 (219) [4,380]
Unarmed Combat 7,958,057 (216) [4,320]
Unarmed Combat 7,724,889 (213) [4,260]
Unarmed Combat 7,570,871 (211) [4,220]
Unarmed Combat 7,420,119 (209) [4,180]
Unarmed Combat 7,419,838 (209) [4,180]
Unarmed Combat 7,123,115 (205) [4,100]
Unarmed Combat 7,049,511 (204) [4,080]
Unarmed Combat 6,762,138 (200) [4,000]
Unarmed Combat 6,761,883 (200) [4,000]
Unarmed Combat 6,412,636 (195) [3,900]
It's more simple than that with the JKF... it's just not using the new damage multiplier system.
It's also not gaining total evasion for levels in UC from items, and gains neither total evasion or UC while wearing an AoF.
I would like to point out that JKF seems to gain no pth when junctioning EB, EG, or HG. In all cases I hit at exactly the same rate against the same opponent. Without any equips my JKF triple hits around twice in 30 rounds. When equipping EB or both EB and EG or HG he would still triple hit around twice in 30 rounds. and this is with changing UC from 40 to 77, 83 and 97 respectively.
May 15 2008 12:47 AM EDT
So what is the base damage for UC?
Assuming that for each level 'y' increase we get a '20y' change in damage multiplier can we consider the base damage to be 20?
So based on that assumption is UC weapon calculated as
[20 x 20y][+y]
Based off of what I have seen, I believe that the base damage is somewhere near that of a vb. I would say anywhere from 60-65.
In addition... when I equip a Kite Shield I end up with a minus 5 to UC... Junction and the JKF are strange friends.
"Nem: remember the EB boosts 150% of what it normally would" Huh? When did that happen?
Yesterday, I did some testing on DrAcO. He took all armor off of his front minion (moved it so that Evasion guys wasn't in front) and I hit him for 25 rounds with UC. My multiplier number was a little under that of his MH, with my ST about 300k higher than his. I was hitting in the 800k-1mil damage range, which he says is very close to his damage with the MH. This was very haphazard, uncontrolled testing, but it makes it appear that UC's base damage is probably somewhere near 80. Previous belief based off of someone's (I can't remember whose) testing was that base damage was near that of a Katana, or 74. So possibly a bit higher base damage than previously expected, but same vicinity?
That's all I've got for now, sorry. If someone with (20) UC wants to test damage vs a x400 katana and a x400 morg (and a x400 VB, why not?) against unarmored minions, I think that would help. It's more realistic than asking someone to up a Katana to x4620 or whatever.
A Dagger [4x1] (+0)
An Amulet of Might  (+8)
A Pair of Black Leather Boots  (+22)
A Helm of Ecthelion  (+12)
Spirit of Danica Maupoissant lvl 1,009,098
Junction: 1.00 / 0.86
ST 393,547 25
DX 629,676 24
Total Evasion 44
Unarmed Combat 57
A Dagger [4x1] (+0)
Spirit of Danica Maupoissant lvl 1,009,165
Total Evasion 44
Unarmed Combat 32
Without Gears VS 71 AC Protection (29) 401,430 STR minion.
#1 :Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 4 / 4 / 72,133 Damage Inflicted: 288,534
#2: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 4 / 4 / 65,844 Damage Inflicted: 263,376
#3: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 3 / 3 / 58,402 Damage Inflicted: 175,208
#4: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 2 / 3 / 58,426 Damage Inflicted: 116,852
#5: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 3 / 3 / 54,216 Damage Inflicted: 162,648
With Gears VS 71 AC Protection (29) 401,430 STR minion.
#1: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 6 / 6 / 85,465 Damage Inflicted: 512,790 *3 double hits*
#2: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 6 / 6 / 82,661 Damage Inflicted: 495,967 *3 double hits*
#3: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 4 / 4 / 95,108 Damage Inflicted: 380,435 *1 double hits*
#4: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 6 / 6 / 83,861 Damage Inflicted: 503,168 *3 double hits*
#5: Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 5 / 5 / 83,701 Damage Inflicted: 418,509 *2 double hits*
May 17 2008 10:05 AM EDT
Just a suggestion for UC improvement:
What if UC PTH somehow affected the PTH of the ranged weapon in the ranged round?
I compared the damage of the JKF with a BoTH with a similar x to the UC on the post battle results and a similar str. The damage was very similar. So the JKF is using an almost base weapon.
I used my JKF who has 42 UC on post battle stats and a BoTH with x50. The BoTH user had a little less str but the the damage was usually within 10k of each other.
May 19 2008 12:21 PM EDT
List of things needing fixing with JKF.
1) x modifier for UC needs to be x20 per pth. (most important thing)
2) AoF affecting UC on JKF.
3) evasion being based off of effective UC. (regular UC works off of effective level while JKF works off of base, so one of them needs to be switched)
Basically the UC JKF uses hasn't been updated along with the times.
I wonder if the old style UC is used on purpose? The damage doesn't seem as low as if it really was just above base.
I'm going to assume that Jon's silence is related to us having made some gross mistake in our logic... I guess it's time to look some more.
May 25 2008 12:12 PM EDT
maybe it will only be changed in the change month?
bugs are normally fixed when they are found...
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