Really unlearn this? You will only get 98% of your (in General)

TheHatchetman June 21 2008 2:46 PM EDT

Oh n0es!!! a whole 2% lost. 5% for HP, ST or DX...

At lower levels, you have nothing to lose, practically... one fiftieth of a really small number is an even smaller number :P

At the much much higher levels, you have a bit more to lose... But aren't you already well over 5% stronger than most of the game? If the change is worthwhile, wouldn't it be much better to take the new strategic advantage of whatever change you were planning to make? Wouldn't that grossly outweigh unlearning cost?

If so, a free retrain is just an added unneccessary bonus. If not, then free retrain is just a way to play with new toys for a day or two?

Seriously dudes, dudettes, and dudemus, if you feel a retrain would help, go for it. Otherwise, don't. Just because free retrains were granted in the past doesn't mean the ever should/will come again. This changemonth may warrant one more than most, but ever since the first free retrain, people have been asking for one every single changemonth. Hell, there's even people holding out on retraining their stats thinking they'll be entitled to a free retrain eventually.

choose to either gain strategy, or not lose ground on your MPR... This sounds 150% reasonable to me. Am I crazy, or does this sound about right to anyone else?

QBsutekh137 June 21 2008 2:55 PM EDT

Good point, Hatch, except you are off by a factor of 2.

It costs another 2% to learn back if the idea you had doesn't pan out. It costs 2 more, 2 more, 2 more for each thing you try.

And no, I am not 5% stronger than "most of the game", whatever that means. Especially with the NUB/NCB in play.

So, in my opinion, it isn't quite as easy as you make it sound. Is there some specific reason you felt the need to share your insight on this point?

QBsutekh137 June 21 2008 3:00 PM EDT

Clarification: my last sentence isn't meant to sound as if you aren't allowed to have an opinion, it just seems like something might be specifically in your craw, and I was curious... I am not in chat or anything, so I think I might be missing the boat on some "buzz" behind the original post?

TheHatchetman June 21 2008 3:04 PM EDT

Every changemonth, there are at least a dozen mentions of a free retrain from people... There's a handful of those people at the top, and theres usually an even larger crowd at the middle and lower parts of the game. Almost as if people feel they are entitled to it...

I believe this is so the game can get shaken up a bit and not cause so much stagnation at the top. What gets shaken up if/when every time something new happens, everyone is given the ability to adapt to it without penalty? My philosophy; either take the MPR advantage you currently have agaist those you have it against, or if the changes are just too good do do without, eat the loss...

It's about give and take. It's about yin, and yang. It's about balance. ^_^

TheHatchetman June 21 2008 3:05 PM EDT

sut, your last sentence was taken as intended ^_^

TheHatchetman June 21 2008 3:06 PM EDT

and in paragraph 2, sentence 1 of my second reply, this = changemonth :P

QBJohnnywas June 21 2008 3:18 PM EDT

"My philosophy; either take the MPR advantage you currently have agaist those you have it against, or if the changes are just too good do do without, eat the loss... "

Hatch FTW.


Mikel June 21 2008 3:40 PM EDT

You know what Hatch, sorry I mentioned it and that you wasted your time making this thread.

Relic June 21 2008 3:45 PM EDT

I would like to see all untrain loss percentages equalized at a flat 2%, having some be 2% and others 5% doesn't make sense to me. Especially considering the 5% is geared toward tanks.

TheHatchetman June 21 2008 4:18 PM EDT

Had it only been your mention of it that prompted this, I would have replied to thread where it was brought up, rather than making a fresh thread for it. You weren't the first to ask for a retrain, you won't be the last. Way to take a disagreement personally. It's okay, I still love ya though Mikel ^_^

Due to the ease of switching DDs vs the ease of switching multi-million net worth weapons, Glory has a point! :P Why not make everything unlearn for 98%? or (for balance's sake with the 2 and 5 percent penalties of today) 97%.

Mikel June 21 2008 4:36 PM EDT

un-training is an All or Nothing event.

I can't just untrain a little and convert it to something else. I have to do it all and take the % cost to it all.

And yes, because I am one of the ones that asked for it, I do take it personally, I have only one of the "new" toys, and I don't plan to use it. But I would like to redo my strategy.

If it would only cost me 30k then I would to it, but it will cost me much more in MPR than that and I don't want to lose more ground to NCB/NUBs than I have to.

j'bob June 21 2008 4:40 PM EDT

Hatch, had it not been for the launch of Protection I would prolly sit on the fence on this one, as I often do. But having a personal interest I will be selfish and say I would not mind a free retrain of a few days.
My AC wall got nerfed fairly heavily in that the AC was reduced, my protection was taken away, and being that "she's" a PL wall, I have no room to train SS to even get my AC up to where it was. So the easy thing would be to just dump the 5 mil into my HP and be done with it.
I am however very interested in what might happen if I went light-ish tank with the BoTh I've got in my hall closet and try some of this new gear out. But it would be on a whim and I'm not going to throw away 5% to untrain my hp and redistribute it and then (5 + 5) 10% from the ST and DX when I decide that it was a stupid thing to try in the first place. So, jon definately doesn't OWE us anything but I have to say with all the changes in damage and such, it would be nice. ;)

j'bob June 21 2008 4:42 PM EDT

Dern I can never get all the stuffing out of my head in one try... sorry...
a bit point that I wanted to get to was after everything I said, I highly doubt I'm the only one affected by the protection launch or damage changes that would like to experiment.
(sorry bout the double)

TheHatchetman June 21 2008 5:11 PM EDT

King of Pain - 3rd highest score, 2nd highest PR, 3rd highest MPR, 2nd highest net worth... With a tat that is over 15% stronger than anybody else's in the game (with only 7 tats above even 75% of KoPs) aside from a guy that doesn't fight him...

I assure you, my friend, that the ground you stand on is quite firm. You can have a cake. You can even eat it too. But you can never tell if it's a lie, until it's too late. Cest la vi

j'bob June 21 2008 5:16 PM EDT

oh... no one said there'd be cake... I love cake!
I'd like some cake!!!

TheHatchetman June 21 2008 5:41 PM EDT

j'bob, we avoid telling you about cakes before they are prepared. We're still wondering what happened to all the cake batter we had you guarding before that wedding...

TheHatchetman June 21 2008 5:41 PM EDT

And sorry for the double-post, but yes, you may have some cake ^_^
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