I'll mention this again.....3rd time (in General)
July 2 2008 3:38 PM EDT
I thought of this long ago and was almost flamed for posting it b4.But I wish there was a req for Evasion just like every other skill.BL and Archery require str for performance.Phantom link and ss don't require hit points but certainly work better with more.I would like to see Evasion req .5 dex.It makes sense that with Evasion trained you have knowledge of how to dodge but without the needed dex you would not have the physical capability to do so.I think this would be good to counter in some part the Evasion trained only walls that many mages and some tanks tend to use.It just makes sense, and yes I am tired of having a high dex trained light tank that cannot hit without putting an additional +50 or more on his weapons.Maybe it is also the logic of it that makes me desire it.Many people have said to me already,"well why don't you do the same".I could but don't wish to.I really am not seeing this as a way to make my team better .I don't think I would be able to hit many of them with a change to dex req evasion. But maybe I could beat the couple that are also going with very high armor in addition to having evasion only trained since if they had to train dex also they might take enough of a hit on both from the high AC armor. Just my 2 cents
July 2 2008 6:16 PM EDT
July 2 2008 6:24 PM EDT
What? I don't know what you're suggesting exactly. But why complicate it by making minions train both?
Looking at your character.. of course you aren't going to hit with 3 different tanks. Basically it'll mean one only needs enough evasion to dodge your 300k dex tanks. It'd be much harder to dodge one 900k dex tank. You also run into the problem of weapon allowance.
Lastly, Steel skin was already introduced basically so you can not have a high AC evasion tank.
If Evasion needs to be tied to Dex, why train it at all. Just train Dex and use DBs...
July 2 2008 6:41 PM EDT
In truth, I agree with you, but this has been brought up before and I believe, not just by you. Jon on the other hand obviously does not agree. He has recently introduced four items; the AoL, the BoF, GoM and the Menelvegorian cape which can all add to your PTH to one degree or another. I would say this is Jon's solution to the problem. Or borrow Ranger's newly overpowered tattoo with +250 PTH or so.
"a high dex trained light tank" = 938k MPR with your biggest minion having "Dexterity: 366,413" with a VB ~4m nw?
"But maybe I could beat the couple that are also going with very high armor in addition to having evasion only trained since if they had to train dex also they might take enough of a hit on both from the high AC armor"
skills get the same penalties and boosts from armor as DX does (except for the AoF)...
July 2 2008 7:33 PM EDT
Pft, Ranger's "overpowered" tattoo
6 rounds of glory, guys, that's it
July 2 2008 8:51 PM EDT
Well I am sure I am not the only one to bring it up.But to Corn on the cob: I am not talking about single minion.I know I am not gong to do much against those.I am talking mainly about 3 and 4 minion mage teams that have AS trained very highly on one or 2 minions and the "wall" trained solely with evasion.It is worse that 4 minion mage teams (and some 4 minion tank teams)Have these Evasion only walls that I cannot hit in ranged nor melee at all.I understand that will happen with 4 minion teams that have alot more pr/mpr but the 4 minion teams that are equal or lower than me in pr/mpr I believe I should hit at least once in awhile.That is all I am trying to point out.Bad enough to hack through the amount of hit points,terrible that some I cant get a single hit.One of the things that Jon also has done "to fix the evasion problem" is nerf evasion.I don't think it needed to be nerfed in such a general way.The way that I proposed above would be more appropriate I believe.
July 2 2008 9:05 PM EDT
1stly learn to use paragraphs
2ndly its already been nerfed many many times...
3rdly provide concrete info.... your team vs who? with what PTH weapons? vs what kind of evasion?
4thly i think this topic needs a rest its getting old
July 2 2008 9:08 PM EDT
My point is that most teams only have 1 damage dealer, two at most. This is generally more effective because it's harder to block 1 damage dealer. 1 tank with x3 the dex is much harder to block with evasion. You can't really consider them "light tanks" if they don't have the most dex they can have at that level. If someone dedicated 1/4th of their xp to blocking your tanks that are only 1/4th the size of your team then it should be effective.
This effect stays true for mages. If someone had three mages and I trained AMF on one out of four minions, I'd mop the floor with them because they'd all take a 50% amf.
The point I'm making is the reason you are having so much trouble hitting is because you have three tanks.
I agree fully with your point, though i feel you could have cut a lot of what you said. Though i am biased as evasion is pretty much my worst nightmare even with my large bow:)
"I wish there was a req for Evasion just like every other skill.BL and Archery require str for performance.Phantom link and ss don't require hit points but certainly work better with more."
only two of the skills you listed have a requirement, bl and archery. both of those requirements are actually skills that the minion should be training anyway.
however, you are proposing adding a dex requirement for evasion. dex is not a skill that is inherently required in an evasion minion. this is where many have a problem with this idea. forcing someone to train a stat that in no way helps the minion other than to train another stat would be a totally new, and in my opinion silly, addition to cb.
if you want the spell to cost more then just ask jon to increase the cost. how would tanks like it if they had to train a new stat called intellect so that they could use a melee weapon? same thing no?
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