6/20 is boring (in General)
you can log on whenever and pretty much not miss BA, I think this is already well documented, but I come with a suggestion. How about giving everyone an extra BA per 20 mins? so regen rates starts at 11/20 and down to 7/20 at top?
We used to be at every 10 minutes with half the rewards but the majority weren't happy with the need to be glued to their computer.
I can't see this happening once we've moved from a more prolific regen rate previously.
July 18 2008 6:48 PM EDT
July 18 2008 7:09 PM EDT
You mean in the not too distant future I'll be able to have a life AND play this game without missing too much!!!!
yeah sounds boring...
July 18 2008 7:12 PM EDT
Personally I'd prefer if you only had to login once a day to not miss any BA regardless of BA regen rate (i.e. raise the darn cap and trickle the BA faster if you want to), but hey, the hyperactives win the debate each and every time, since, well... they're hyperactive ?
Oh, and Jon seems to be for "login often" for some reason, although I can't for the life of me imagine why that is.
July 18 2008 7:16 PM EDT
I mean, it CAN be painful to burn 160 BA sometimes, especially if you're trying to maximize gains (you sometimes leech too much score off the people you attack if they're not logged-in themselves), so there ARE advantages to being active past the fact you're not missing any BA... coming online and having to burn up to 720 BA (when you're a brand spanking new character) can be pretty tough already, WITHOUT you having to worry about missing BA regen.
Heck, I'd say raise the "accrual" cap up to the 1600 "hardcap" limit for all I care... what's the point in having a hardcap if the ONLY thing you can use it for is if you BUY BA for a few days, then use them ?
It doesn't make any sense.
July 18 2008 7:23 PM EDT
Right now, all you do is log in every X hours (5h 20m for new chars, down to a bit under 9 hours for the top), then VERY QUICKLY burn through your 160-ish BA (yes, even without a darn supporter auto-advance fightlist, but with one it's downright trivial), after which you can just logoff.
If that's supposed to increase presence... well, it's not. It's KILLING it.
Heck, raising the normal cap to the hard-cap but also INCREASING the "passive heal" time from 30-ish seconds to something like 1, 2 or even up to 4 minutes would make MUCH more sense.
This way, you'd have some time to chat or write in the forum while you wait for opponents to revive, and there would be some actual competition and reciprocal farming going on with other people online at the time.
Oh well... arguments, schmarguments, what do I know ?
Haha, I was wondering why my BA was regaining slower than I remembered =P
6/20 isn't boring. It's subtle, and is a more elegant end game than any I've played before. I'm excited to see where it goes, and I think Jon has put a lot of effort into making a scalable game.
July 18 2008 11:42 PM EDT
/me still thinks NUB is OP :) but who am i to say that
July 18 2008 11:54 PM EDT
I find 6/20 to be stale too, PK...no competition. Whoever is ahead stays there, whoever is behind is permanently so, and the only way out of the rut is to buy a character or N*B.
So not true...
at least not for me.
I constantly get to consider retraining, switching minion order, upping items. Everything I touch can change my fightlist.
I can take risky chances and gamble that Ranger won't find a workaround, or hunker down and prepare to fight it out long term.
I really like 6/20, it's a reasonably paced trudge with constant feedback and rewards. Slow down and enjoy.
I'm for bringing back x/10. I think x/20 hurts competitiveness. If you can't log on every 4 hours to use your BA, then oh well. You shouldn't deserve an advantage over someone who can.
If someone spends more time then you're willing to spend, why not give them a competitive edge? If they can spend more time then you're able to, well, tough luck.
I think the game was more fun during x/10 as I played more. Then again, I guess x/20 has brought in and kept more players.
I really wish there could be three different servers. Softcore (x/20), hardcore (x/10), and maybe even an ExTrEmE! (x/5). That'd probably be too expensive or require too much effort.
For the record, I work +40 hours a week, and barely log in enough to burn all of my BA as of right now, so saying that I just like x/10 because I can play more doesn't apply.
July 19 2008 12:50 AM EDT
"If someone spends more time then you're willing to spend, why not give them a competitive edge?"
I was under the mistaken impression this is a STRATEGY game then ?
But it's instead just a mindless grindfest ?
Seriously, which one is it ? Strategy, grind, or a weird, delicate and (occasionally?) downright unstable balance in between them ?
July 19 2008 12:57 AM EDT
Sickone - how else do you gain ground on someone? There has to be a factor allowing for this, otherwise it is indeed just a grindfest. Wherever you get on N*B is where you stay, because everyone hits all their BA.
The factor used to be using up your BA. Now, not so much. Everyone in 6/20 hits it.
July 19 2008 1:07 AM EDT
And that is the actual problem : the fact that higher up, you need to spend LESS time than the ones below.
Not only that, but also the fact the the higher you go, the LESS penalties you get.
Up in the 7/20 already (and especially more so in the 6/20 area), you can pretty much attack anybody regardless of score (since you can hardly ever actually get a positive challenge bonus), as the penalties are minimal.
I should know, I spent a helluva lot of time in 7/20 myself, before AND after the score adjustment.
If anything, score needs to be adjusted even further, so that the top echelon gets score to PR ratios closer to 2:1, not the puny 1:1 we get now... in order to promote people actually being able to take advantage of score bonuses.
In other words, score (overall) needs to rise faster, but also needs to drop much more drastically when succesfully attacked a lower-score member. Overall score should be easily gained and lost in the *200% to *50% range.
Well, that, or scrap (or better said reverse) the whole current challenge bonus and score concept altogether... have score as base reward and PR as challenge bonus, not vice-versa, like now.
Oh... and cancel the penality reduction for higher MPR people. The fact they need to login less is enough already, no need to NOT penalize them for attacking that much below their PR (and/or score).
July 19 2008 1:12 AM EDT
Point is, once you get to 6/20, the only thing standing in your progress is how much USD you're willing to spend (or how long you've been playing, to have a huge NW sunk into weapons) - since you can't possibly hope to get higher rewards anyway, and neither significantly lower (thanks to the "no penalties" thinghy).
All in all, it's a pathetic system that ENCOURAGES stagnation in the upper echelons.
Am I the only one that considers it bad for the health of the game ?
I suppose I don't even need to try to explain - the abundance of NCB runs for tattoo level increase and the fact N*Bs (even me) regularly surpass veterans in MPR should be indication enoug something is TERRIBLY broken.
Some think that x/10 provides more competitiveness... but ultimately, it just means those who can log on more often get an advantage. Competitiveness should be about gameplay and strategy. We're getting double the rewards, right? Overall, a bit less work for the same rewards... I complain not. Otherwise, let's just join Mutilaria and fight whenever we want =P
July 19 2008 10:17 AM EDT
"Up in the 7/20 already (and especially more so in the 6/20 area), you can pretty much attack anybody regardless of score (since you can hardly ever actually get a positive challenge bonus), as the penalties are minimal."
Haha, you're funny. 7/20 you can attack anyone? Is that so? I'm playing tatless (RoE) and before the scores were redone I was getting -1% to -5%. Now, I'm getting 0-10%. If I had my tat that would be hitting negatives. So I'm sorry, 7/20 is the hardest regen rate to be in.
"I find 6/20 to be stale too, PK...no competition. Whoever is ahead stays there, whoever is behind is permanently so, and the only way out of the rut is to buy a character or N*B."
I shall post a thread and laugh at you when I get there.
July 19 2008 1:13 PM EDT
Well, look at it this way : it's merely a 15% difference in challenge bonus (the bifference between being in an average clan and hitting only clan chars, vs being in no clan)... however, you CAN find targets with -5% CB that give you better rewards than some targets with +5% CB, if they're significantly higher in PR.
Yeah, 7/20 is the nastiest place to be in, all things considered, especially the lower parts.
Still, as you can probably see from my own MPR growth curve, the greatest difference in growth was first when I got rid of my RoE and equipped a growing tattoo (at around 1 mil MPR) and when I got a bit idle (several other clanmates got even more idle) and the clan was disbanded (at around 1.7 mil MPR)... and then a recovery and actual faster increase when I rented an uber-NW weapon after retraining to single archer from SFBM and scores were revamped.
I actually spent less time (more lost BA) the higher I got in MPR, so growth rate was slowly declining... would I have been constantly active, the MPR growth rate would almost surely have looked like a straigth line.
July 19 2008 5:26 PM EDT
"I constantly get to consider retraining, switching minion order, upping items. Everything I touch can change my fightlist. "
I confirm that.
July 19 2008 5:45 PM EDT
Must be nice to be a mage and get to constantly think about retrains and things of the sort.
as much as I like you Sox and your char I have to say playing a single minion isn't exactly the most flexible setup...
You're also using nothing but a very specialized weapon for offense and then wondering why you can kill everyone. You were beating LA there for a while, that shows just how powerful your bow CAN be.
July 19 2008 6:28 PM EDT
I am not just talking about myself. I know I can't change. I don't have a problem with it, but I do see it being tough for tanks to actually change and adapt. Too tough really because you can retrain all you want, but your weapon is still the same. so kinda stuck in that regard :)
July 20 2008 9:53 AM EDT
"If you can't log on every 4 hours to use your BA, then oh well. You shouldn't deserve an advantage over someone who can."
So those of us who have to, for example, go to work for 8+ hours a day; have employers who are cruel enough to not let us use the internet for non-work related purposes; and somehow still don't earn enough money to be able to afford to sink 100's of real-life $ into the game; get penalised just because we're grown-up (and I use that term loosely ;) and have jobs?
Why should someone deserve an advantage just because they have too much free time on their hands?
July 20 2008 10:04 AM EDT
You're linking heavy USD spending to playing CB. That's where your logic fails.
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