jon, can we have a break (in General)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 4 2008 4:11 PM EDT

i am no longer sure what the requirement is for a clan to be auto-retired, but am worried we might get auto retired while awaiting the other balance issues.

i am sure others, especially single member clans may have had issues already and i would hate for anyone to have to start over with building the clan stats because of balance changes. our clan has been working hard to get back into the upper ranks since january when we combined two clans!

i propose that any time we have major balancing going on during change month that the clan auto-retire system is put on standby until such time as things return to normal.

Cube September 4 2008 4:35 PM EDT

I think it's if you're in the negatives at the end of the week, but you should be able to pull the score up by then.

However, I do think a free retrain would make sense now.

QBsutekh137 September 4 2008 4:39 PM EDT

Hey, I just lost my clan because I was gone for a week of vacation! I don't want the auto-retire turned off now! *smile*

I am not sure I understand what changes have to do with staying above negative clan points... Are you saying your strategy is so decimated that you can't even beat any other people with a "C" in front of their name? I've been pulling 12%+ all week, myself...

QBOddBird September 4 2008 4:49 PM EDT

That is kind of what I was wondering too, sutekh...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 4 2008 4:53 PM EDT

well some of my clanmates have lost their entire fight list and are i believe buying ba and hoping for better days ahead or they are fighting but only two people fight lists or such.

personally, i went from a plus 40 fight list to a plus 20 one. i am being farmed by about ten more people than before and barely staying positive.

i think we will probably be ok, i was thinking more about others who are less active. my clan is number nine in overall standings for the year with only 8 months fighting in since our inception and if we are struggling then i feel that their are others who might be in worse shape than us. ; )

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 4 2008 4:56 PM EDT

furthermore, for those of us in 6/20 it really matters little how far down we fight, not so for those with challenge bonuses. they might be better off buying ba and waiting for the rest of the changes.

either way, if you aren't having a problem..great for you and if we are the only ones then no worries at all.

QBsutekh137 September 4 2008 5:11 PM EDT

I don't think buying BA and waiting for things is very well-advised at all. Find new targets, retrain, or fight lower... That's the game, as I see it. I have a fight list of around 20-25, and now have probably 5-6 people who beat me (there would be more, but I am not a 3-point clan, so some people lay off me). And like I said, I am up around 12% bonus, so WELL above negative clan points as a singleton... I guess I am just not seeing the issue, and I certainly wouldn't expect Jonathan to mess with providing clan breaks or "off" times. While I think the Evasion changes have shifted the balance of power back to tanks, it doesn't seem that desperate yet...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 4 2008 5:24 PM EDT

so people should retrain, take the xp loss. then when more changes come through that possibly mean another retrain and more xp loss? i really do not see how that is better than buying ba and waiting the rest of the changes?

Little Anthony September 4 2008 5:29 PM EDT

put the whole clan into "Vacation Mode" :P No attack allowed, nor growth. Somewhat like "retired" but for the whole clan?

QBsutekh137 September 4 2008 5:31 PM EDT

I think your post displays the reason why not, don't you? *smile* That's what clans are about (and a reason I dislike them!) Can't live with them, can't live without them!

Plus, if you sit on purchased BA, aren't you losing all the accrual? That's experience and money straight down the drain! Buying 12 hours a day but losing 24 hours-worth of BA a day -- that simply doesn't make sense. Even if you have to fight lower, you need to be using that accrual.

QBsutekh137 September 4 2008 5:33 PM EDT

You could still allow attacks and defends, just that you don't get any clan bonus, and the person attaching you doesn't get clan points. As long as it removes the "C" so that you aren't fooling people, that's not a bad idea.

Warbook implements vacation mode by saying you cannot attack anyone for a whole 24 hours before going into vacation, and you have to stay in vacation at least 24 hours. Such cool-ups and cool-downs would be needed here as well, otherwise people could hide in vacation mode. All that toggling and such could be a reason Jonathan has never implemented such a thing...

BootyGod September 4 2008 5:35 PM EDT

Some of you are rather jaded sometimes...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 4 2008 5:44 PM EDT

too true, i always look at it as free bumps until the only one that really matters (two now?) can see it though.

at least jon and nightstrike only belittle suggestions once a year or so. : )

QBsutekh137 September 4 2008 5:48 PM EDT

Who's being jaded?

Mirick September 4 2008 7:04 PM EDT

Is that a serious question?

QBOddBird September 4 2008 7:12 PM EDT

I wish they'd do it more often. I need some more good humor in my life. :)

QBsutekh137 September 4 2008 7:26 PM EDT

Yes, it is a serious question...who is being jaded? Did I miss a meeting? Miss the joke?

Sacredpeanut September 4 2008 8:19 PM EDT

I agree with Frisky, I've never really understood the point of hording bought BA and hoping for better times ahead.

Surely any potential (slight) increase in rewards in the future is outweighed by all the wasted BA. You're effectively wasting 2/3 of your maximum usable BA so your rewards would have to triple in the future to make the hording BA strategy worthwhile.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 5 2008 12:20 AM EDT

i got bored and that is always dangerous!

if i figured it correctly, in the 6/20 ba regen range, it would take between two to three weeks of lost accrual to equal the xp loss of a 2 percent retrain across the board. that was with no clan bonus on xp.

i will admit that you likely will not be losing a straight two percent on mpr, but since it could be as high as five percent on some stats i thought with a major change that could be a good number to use.

i am too tired to post my numbers and was doing it more for fun and boredom rather than proving anything, therefore i could be off and i would suggest running your own numbers before making any decisions regarding xp hoarding.

Sacredpeanut September 5 2008 12:31 AM EDT

But isn't getting a poor challenge bonus but using all BA better than

1) Retraining now and getting a slightly better challenge bonus (and running the risk of more changes going against you and having to retrain again).

2) Saving bought BA and losing your BA accrual (as I said above you would need to get triple rewards with the saved BA to make it worth-while).

I'm still not sure where the benefits of saving BA are =/

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 5 2008 12:36 AM EDT

i did make an error and it would seem that for me 6.7 days would be the break even point on a 2 percent across the board xp loss.

i am not really advocating the hoarding of xp, i was mainly just curious where that break even point was.

how low can rewards get with the negative challenge bonuses? i thought that from tournaments and playing around with things that it could reduce your rewards down to nearly nothing?

Last Gasp September 5 2008 12:39 AM EDT

"But isn't getting a poor challenge bonus but using all BA better than "

I guess that depends on your view... I went from 20 - 30% rewards down to -1 - +5%. I've retrained three times on one character now but my fight list fell from 25 - 30 down to 15 at much lower levels. If a damage change is coming as Jon has said, then maybe I should not have retrained at all... either way, it's much harder for me to stay + in the clan than before.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 5 2008 12:47 AM EDT

d'oh, i think the first numbers were closer, 20.1 days break even point.

i get 6 ba per 20, which is 18 per hour * 24 hours in a day = 432 ba per day.

i average 380 xp per fight without the clan bonus, the posted bonus not the inherent one, so 380 * 432 = 164160 xp per day lost.

i have approximately 165 million xp on my guy, so a two percent across the board loss is 3,300,000 xp lost.

divide the 3.3 million by the 164160 for 20.1 days.

just under 3 weeks then if i am figuring that correctly which i think i am.

Sacredpeanut September 5 2008 12:48 AM EDT

" i am not really advocating the hoarding of xp, i was mainly just curious where that break even point was."

I'm confused now, I thought you were talking about hording BA, (i.e. buying all BA for the day but not spending any of it) rather than hording untrained XP.

I'd definitely advocate hording XP in your situation. I was arguing against hording bought BA (since you are effectively wasting 2/3 of your maximum daily BA allowance).

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 5 2008 12:51 AM EDT

errm, you are correct, that should have read hoarding of ba.

to be clear, in normal circumstances hoarding ba would not help you. however, if you are retraining and not sure that it will help you more than now or not sure what other changes are coming, if you think it may take less than 3 weeks for those changes, then hoarding ba may be better than taking the retrain loss.

i was just pointing out that the retrain and lose xp is not the slam dunk that others made it out to be and that hoarding ba in this case is not as silly as others also made that out to be.
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