Ressurections through TSA (in General)


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 8 2008 7:07 PM EDT

The last three rounds from a recent fight;

SUPERMAN crushed Reya Dawnbringer [194776]
SUPERMAN crushed Reya Dawnbringer [190562]
Reya Dawnbringer burns from the flames surrounding SUPERMAN (200033)
Pariah absorbs damage [72727]

Pariah regenerated 65,454 HP
R.I.P. Reya Dawnbringer

Pariah burns from the flames surrounding SUPERMAN (123657)

Pariah regenerated 65,454 HP

Pariah burns from the flames surrounding SUPERMAN (123969)

Pariah regenerated 65,454 HP
R.I.P. Pariah

In the second round, I can only assume my RBF killed Pariah before I attacked with UC. So I didn't attack the now dead target.

But the TSA bought Paraih back to life, and we went another round.

I don't like this. It should not have carried on for another round. I should have attacked (even if it wasn't shown) and there should have been no way for the TSA to bring Pariah back.

I can forsee a time when TSA regen like this is so big, and damage reduciton so great (or if you want damage now so nerfed...) that we'll reach stalemate just because you keep delaing ust enough damage to kill a TSA minion, but not enough to stop the TSA from continuosly bringing them back.

Especially when you have more 'damage' on your team that just doesn't get used.

Adminedyit September 8 2008 7:08 PM EDT

its the death dodge!!

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 8 2008 7:10 PM EDT

It got nerfed enough!

Leave the TSA alone!

/me mumbles something about just buying a second one.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 8 2008 7:10 PM EDT

Here's another exmaple, but here the dead enemy minion get's a last attack off, while I stand around doing nothing...

SUPERMAN fractured Tank [32304]
SUPERMAN crunched Tank [28673]
SUPERMAN crunched Tank [31263]
Tank burns from the flames surrounding SUPERMAN (175643)
Tank mistimed his attack at SUPERMAN

Tank regenerated 60,000 HP

Tank burns from the flames surrounding SUPERMAN (171361)
Tank's blow was dodged by SUPERMAN

Tank regenerated 60,000 HP

Tank burns from the flames surrounding SUPERMAN (168956)
Tank mistimed his attack at SUPERMAN

Tank regenerated 60,000 HP
R.I.P. Tank


If I hadn't have dodged those two attacks, they could have killed me. When by all rights my UC hits (that didn't happen) would have made sure the TSA couldn't bring him back.

I'm starting to loathe the TSA.

Cube September 8 2008 7:10 PM EDT

The game should simply detect that the minion will resurrect the next round and let you attack him like normal. Sounds like the fix.

INDColtsFan18 September 8 2008 7:10 PM EDT

I don't see it can you explain.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 8 2008 7:12 PM EDT

First round;

SUPERMAN fractured Tank [32304]
SUPERMAN crunched Tank [28673]
SUPERMAN crunched Tank [31263]
Tank burns from the flames surrounding SUPERMAN (175643)
Tank mistimed his attack at SUPERMAN

Tank regenerated 60,000 HP


Second Round (notice I don't get to attack with my UC, as I assume the minion was killed at the start of the round by my RBF - But he till gets his attack...)

Tank burns from the flames surrounding SUPERMAN (171361)
Tank's blow was dodged by SUPERMAN

Tank regenerated 60,000 HP


Third round (Again, I don't get the chance to attack... While my opponent does)

Tank burns from the flames surrounding SUPERMAN (168956)
Tank mistimed his attack at SUPERMAN

Tank regenerated 60,000 HP
R.I.P. Tank

Tyriel [123456789] September 8 2008 7:19 PM EDT

I stalemate Conquest because of this.

I'll give you the short of it. Basically, I kill his offense in the last round of ranged. Then I attack his wall starting in melee. In melee with my Mageseeker, I can't do enough damage to his wall to kill his PL sink. Or can I?

After adding up the numbers (and studying the log of a battle), in round 4 of ranged, I had done enough damage to kill the PL sink (by well over 150k, which is more than enough to overcome its ~41k regen). At this point, I manage to kill his familiar, leaving him nothing to attack me.

But, for some stupid reason, every round (and in the case of melee with my Mageseeker, 2) the PL sink is STILL absorbing EVERY round, except the round I kill his familiar in.

All I have to say is "What the?!" to this. The PL sink should be dead in 4 rounds, followed shortly by his familiar and the rest of his team.

But, thanks to this stupid bug (Because I sure hope its not a feature), I can't beat him.

Please, Jon (or NS, I guess, for that matter), FIX THE TSA. If nothing else in Changemonth, at least fix this!

If you want to look at the log from a battle, I can give you all 50 rounds of it.

Cube September 8 2008 7:27 PM EDT

Tyriel, what GentlemanLoser is posting about is a bit different. Since he has two damage sources, the TSA minion hides in death for one round from his UC minion because the RoBF "kills" the TSA minion, and there are no minions left for his UC minion to attack.

Tyriel [123456789] September 8 2008 7:31 PM EDT

Just realized that I forgot the 10% reduction from PL.

Still, that doesn't change the fact the enemy minions are 'hiding' in death and then resurrecting after.

Unless I'm missing a reason why a minion that should be dead can continue fighting (whether it has no real consequence, like in GL's case, or it can mean the difference between winning and stalemating like in my case).

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 8 2008 7:31 PM EDT

Not only that but the minion gets to attack back before he dies. lol

Tyriel [123456789] September 8 2008 7:31 PM EDT

That is, unless Jon really DOES want PL sinks to live for the ENTIRE battle, absorbing damage every turn unless you hit them directly. Which is not how I recall it working.

Sacredpeanut September 8 2008 7:38 PM EDT

The TSA should heal at the beginning of the round not the end of the round IMO.

QBsutekh137 September 8 2008 7:47 PM EDT

I agree that something, anything, needs to be done.

Dark Dreky September 8 2008 8:11 PM EDT

The TSA should not heal at all. It's the only item that does... why not introduce healing spells? (Yes, I am aware that this is in FORS) Or some other items or skills that heal as well?

Or maybe...

Add fire susceptibility i.e. increased damage from fire for minions wearing the TSA. Or make fire damage unable to be regenerated, this would be on par with D&D and Tolkien style trolls... right?

Something. Anything.

Mikel September 8 2008 8:39 PM EDT

Now don't need to go changing it all around, it's a pretty nice item, wasn't happy about the nerf to it considering that SG is still quite over powered. But what ever.

I agree that you should not be able to dodge death with that item.

I don't use it like that, and I thought it was fixed at one time, but I guess not.

Sickone September 8 2008 8:57 PM EDT

The easiest fix (and also a buff to the TSA, actually) would be to simply have the TSA act at the start of each round and grant the HP even if the minion is at max HP already.
Effect might have to be toned down a bit, maybe to 2.5% per round or even just 2% per round.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 8 2008 9:00 PM EDT

dude... You get given a gift (nearly 100% win rate against everyone, including two who were previously beating the snot out of you) for change month and complain about SG. Gall isn't a strong enough word for it.

SG only does more damage than CoC against all heavy AC minions, exactly where it should. My 9.5m SG hits for less than a mil against some targets.

The TSA has been the most abused item in CB after the MgS. Trying to defend it is laughable. If anything needs a reworking it's the TSA.

Make regen tied to + instead of a percentage (0.03% per?), make dead dead for good.

Conquest September 8 2008 9:04 PM EDT

Tyriel, you only have 27M NW on your archer. Increase your X and I'm pretty sure you would beat me handily. The TSA is overpowered in our matchup, otherwise the familiar wouldn't die. Your lack of dmg is what is stalemating the fight after the familiar dies.

Conquest September 8 2008 9:06 PM EDT

Double posting to correct a typo (wtb the ability to edit posts!).

Tyriel, you only have 27M NW on your archer. Increase your X and I'm pretty sure you would beat me handily. The TSA is NOT overpowered in our matchup, otherwise the familiar wouldn't die. Your lack of dmg is what is stalemating the fight after the familiar dies. You also were using an RoE I assume? I don't see the problem here.

Sickone September 8 2008 9:13 PM EDT

I only have 22 mil on mine and I'm kicking his behind with his current setup :p

TheHatchetman September 8 2008 9:40 PM EDT

TSA was nerfed? what did I miss? I saw the 25% reduction, but wasn't physical damage reduced by 56% and DD reduced by 33% to compensate?

Instead of getting hit for a theoretical mil and regening 800k of it (200k HP lost), you are being hit for 667k and regening 600k of it (67k lost) against DD, and being hit for 444k and regening 444k because you can't go over max (no loss)...

If this is a nerf, I would request my VB to be the next to receive a nerf! :P

Sickone September 8 2008 10:00 PM EDT

Whoa, hatch, to regen 800k per hit you'd have needed to have a starting/base 20 mil HP :)
But yeah, I get the idea... still, it's not quite as drastic as you put it, since damage you receive is significantly higher than the damage you could/can regenerate per round, usually by almost one order of magnitude (think 400k-800k damage vs 40k-80k regen).

Mikel September 8 2008 10:12 PM EDT

Gall?
You constantly defend it, even when I posted that it still does a massive amount of damage with NO ARMOR on.

Shouldn't it ramp up/down based on the base AC of the armor of the target? No it stays relatively the same.

I'm all for putting a Zero AC minion upfront to battle it, but that minion takes almost as much as it would if my main minion was in front, so what's the point in the spell?


And so what if I can beat everyone, that is irrelevant to the SG Topic.

Andy cast Antimagic Field on Little Anthony (0.35)

vs 191 this one has a Mage Shield +50 on it.
Little Anthony touches Sting [1418148]
Little Anthony touches Sting [1212530]
Little Anthony touches Sting [1124343]
Little Anthony touches Sting [1044616]
Little Anthony touches Sting [1075545]
Little Anthony touches Sting [1406327]
Little Anthony touches Sting [1672250]
Little Anthony touches Sting [1744224]
Little Anthony touches Sting [1269398]


vs 191 w/o Mage Shield
Little Anthony touches Sting [2069482]
Little Anthony touches Sting [2417868]
Little Anthony touches Sting [2921303]
Little Anthony touches Sting [1965685]

Vs 3 AC minion
Little Anthony touches Roxanne [1665217]
Little Anthony touches Roxanne [2135555]
Little Anthony touches Roxanne [2224896]

vs 119
Little Anthony touches Stewart [2122322]

vs 35
Little Anthony touches Andy [2406478]
Little Anthony touches Andy [2683108]


And he does that much damage to the different AC classes?

BTW LA is back to beating me so adapt or not, but don't cry either way.

Little Anthony September 8 2008 10:30 PM EDT

it is not total AC that matters. Remember : base AC increase SG damage. Extra + on those armors protects some.
so your 191 AC on sting can break down further to how much base AC is, and how much plus it has to protect it. Then the math can be more accurate.


I Adapt to the change to win. So does others who wants to win.

QBsutekh137 September 8 2008 10:43 PM EDT

There might be some gall there, LA's SG is far from invincible. How far? Well, pretty far if I can beat him with no AMF at all.

LA is changing things around, making tough choices, and eating some losses for it. And his SG isn't impossible to beat at all.

And no, the TSA "death dodge" hasn't been fixed. That death dodge should be fixed, as should the fact that PL can keep 20-HP minions alive (though I am quite sure you won't be for that change, Mikel...)

Conquest September 8 2008 10:48 PM EDT

I've posted this challenge at least twice now. For all the complaints against SG show me a SG user that is fighting much higher than he should be.

QBsutekh137 September 8 2008 10:49 PM EDT

A splendid request!

Warbringer September 8 2008 10:55 PM EDT

http://www.carnageblender.com/stats/minion-spells-all.tcl?field=98&title=Shocking+Grasp&realm=Gondor

Here is a list of the top SG users for JarL.

Conquest September 8 2008 10:57 PM EDT

Did you not understand the question? Do I need to rephrase it?

Warbringer September 8 2008 10:59 PM EDT

I just posted it so you guys could look at it, I didn't try to answer your question so don't freak out.

QBsutekh137 September 8 2008 11:01 PM EDT

Ca-at Par-tayyy! Just my phone, don't freak out!

Sorry, ALL times are good times for gratuitous Frisky Dingo quoting.

All times.

Six bars.

Conquest September 8 2008 11:02 PM EDT

No one is freaking out. You said you posted it for me (after I posted a simple question) and therefore it is not unreasonable to believe that you simply misunderstood what is being asked.

Mikel September 8 2008 11:02 PM EDT

He understands what you are talking about, he's just making it easier for people to actually meet your request. I am able to when I take off my +50 Mage Shield.

I lose to Novice:
MPR 3,481,383
vs MPR 4,044,831


Nice little chunk there.

I can't provide anymore examples simply because my MPR is way to big for any others at this time.

QBsutekh137 September 8 2008 11:09 PM EDT

Put on your MgS and compare PR to PR, please. What is this removal of equipment and then comparing MPR crap? MPR has nothing to do with rewards. It's total PR (VPR, in fact, I believe) against the score you are fighting.

Maybe you didn't understand that Conquest wanted _reasonable_ examples?

Not to mention, AS/GA is still the best game in town against folks not using DM. Novice proves that, and that is an entirely different facet of his strategy (a fantastic one). Of course he will eat you alive, and please don't comment about your huge AMF. A huge AMF isn't meant to guarantee ANYTHING (you sound like Ranger and his endless comments about his EC wasn't doing enough against Evasion...gah!) against someone with that many total HP on their team. He's a DE baby and has expertly nailed it. Don't remove gear you would usually have on to make a point.

Sorry I am so irked, but you brought the MgS into this. I was fine with it, finally, except you give proof positive that a single item can change a battle outcome against a mage. And yet that's not imbalance at all, right? You can't have it both ways. Wear it and take the win, or remove it and take the loss. But don't use both scenarios to talk out both sides of your mouth.

Conquest September 8 2008 11:11 PM EDT

You'll have to excuse my sarcasm here, but what part of removing a +50 MgS answers that question? That piece of gear is essential to your strategy.

What is it about the CB community and testing things? Everyone simply wants to take specific fights or skew the fight itself to provide "proof" of something.

At least where archers were concerned there was no gray area. We didn't see anything like: HEY! If I untrain all of my HP archers X, Y, and Z are beating me. NERF! But this wasn't case, we could substantially list a group of players who were using big ELBows to destroy much higher MPR targets.

Mikel September 8 2008 11:12 PM EDT

Nov:
Base AC:
Sting: 42 +149 +199 with Mage Shield
Roxanne: 3 +0
Andy: 45 +74
Stewart: 35 +0

QBsutekh137 September 8 2008 11:14 PM EDT

Say what now?

Mikel September 8 2008 11:23 PM EDT

For what ever reason you want it here it is:
Power
Nov:
5,143,633

W/O
6,134,452
W
6,254,7113

And just how many +50 Mage Shields do you see floating around? My +307 DBs are useless vs Mages,

and please PR is just as useless as trying to compare MPR, simply cause if I have a large evasion, then it's useless against a certain setup, same with that Mage Sheild, useless vs Tanks. So what is your point?

My point is if it wasn't for that Item, I would be owned by a smaller character.

And I am not in a position to give you the "perfect" example that you seek. So take my example for what it's worth. And quit trying to act like it's useless data.

QBOddBird September 8 2008 11:26 PM EDT

Original Request:

" Conquest 10:48 PM EDT
I've posted this challenge at least twice now. For all the complaints against SG show me a SG user that is fighting much higher than he should be. "

Just pointing out that nobody has met this challenge. Yes, including Mikel's example.

Cube September 8 2008 11:35 PM EDT

Show me a VB user, that's as effective as SG. As I said either VB needs to be powered up, or SG needs to be powered down.

Mikel September 8 2008 11:42 PM EDT

In my case, all of my MPR counts vs Nov's setup and his AMF doesn't count vs mine. So take away that much more for how much his AMF makes up of his current total MPR.

What's your point fruit loops, I already stated that I can't give him the "perfect" example?

I will be quitting this game in the near future, so enjoy either arguing amongst yourselves or patting each others backs.

I have been done in chat for a while, and now I'm done here in the forums.

Good day!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 9 2008 12:03 AM EDT

Good day indeed...

To be honest I'm surprised about the MgS, I'm so far from beating you with it on I couldn't imagine a win even with your team naked.

lostling September 9 2008 9:03 AM EDT

i dont want to seem rude here... But could you people stay on topic? Im pretty sure that you wouldnt want other people to high jack your thread? I think most people know my views on sg(exp. Novice...) so lets just get back on topic?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 9 2008 9:11 AM EDT

I'm sorry for responding to a hijacker

Kefeck [BlackSmith] September 9 2008 9:35 AM EDT

the demise of battle royal.

QBsutekh137 September 9 2008 9:39 AM EDT

GL doesn't mind a good hijack. *smile* To bring it back:

Jonathan, please fix the TSA resurrection scenarios.

AdminJonathan September 9 2008 12:11 PM EDT

fixed (TSA minions will continue to be targetted after they are "dead" if no other targets remain)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 9 2008 12:19 PM EDT

woot!

QBsutekh137 September 9 2008 1:57 PM EDT

Thanks, Jonathan!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 9 2008 2:48 PM EDT

AWESOME!

:D

/hug
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