So, I'm guessing no free retrain? (in General)

Solare September 22 2008 12:49 PM EDT

It's been quite a while, and I've been patient, but there has been no changes recently and no free retrain.

Why a free retrain? Evasion wasn't just nerfed, it was changed completely, thus nullifying many people's strategies. If it were my fault for training a skill that was useless in the future, then I would feel responsible and retrain taking the xp loss. But being that my training evasion was well thought-out, I don't think it's right that I have to lose xp to untrain a skill that I see as virtually useless to me now.

If there will not be free retrain, then I suppose I'll have to take the xp loss, but I don't want to suddenly be surprised if a free retrain comes out of nowhere some time in the near future.

What are people's thoughts on this matter? Do you think it's safe to say there will be no free retrain? Some people may say 'wait it out,' and I may, but that's not what I'm looking for. I'd like to see if anyone has an opinion on whether or not they believe there will or will not be. Simply that.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 22 2008 12:52 PM EDT

there is still over a week on change month and i feel there are more changes to come along with bug fixes hopefully. as for free retrains, no one really knows except those good at keeping secrets and these are rarely announced in advance.

Sickone September 22 2008 12:54 PM EDT

Meh, it's only 2% loss of XP in the stat you're untraining (so, more like, most likely noticeably less than 1% of total XP)... which translates into even less than 1% lost MPR.
Not really such a big deal.

Solare September 22 2008 1:01 PM EDT

I suppose it's true that there is a little over a week left. However, I just haven't seen any changes at all (likely because Jon doesn't have the time). I don't like to see characters that shouldn't beat me, beat me; and this urges me to untrain evasion and put it into something more useful that will allow me to easily fend them off. I suppose I should continue to be patient until the end of the month.

As for untraining 2%, that is quite a lot when you have invested tens of millions of xp into a skill. It's enough to set me back more than a day's worth of boosted xp (such as a Tuesday or Saturday), and at this point, its not a viable option. I suppose I'll just sit tight for now, watching 2 mil MPR chars beat my character up because of xp invested in a useless skill. Just makes me clench my fists is all...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 22 2008 1:07 PM EDT

i feel your pain, i have over 60 million xp in evasion. : (

Hakai [Aye Phelta Thi] September 22 2008 1:16 PM EDT

Retrains are for the weak. ;p

Sickone September 22 2008 1:16 PM EDT

111 mil XP into "5% penalty" stats over here... beats your 60 mil of "2% penalty" hands-down :))
And did I mention I need to redirect most of my cash into gear (ignoring to buy BA) just to keep even remotely competitive for my (M)PR level ? :P

Cube September 22 2008 1:18 PM EDT

There's still the supporter item to come, so that's at least one change coming, and another reason not to retrain yet.

Solare September 22 2008 1:23 PM EDT

Not to be rude, however... Comparing and contrasting XP retrain differences, as well as bashing retraining altogether was not the intention of this thread. I'd like to ask if the responses would only pertain to the questions I asked at the start. Thanks.

Goodfish September 22 2008 1:25 PM EDT

I untrained with the experience penalty. Just because free retrains have happened in the past doesn't necessarily mean they'll happen again (in fact I hope they don't).

King September 22 2008 2:41 PM EDT

Not to be rude but the costs of a retrain is part of a game.
Every three months something get's changed and because Jon was kind enough to allowed a free retrain in the past everyone suddenly jumps on to the "OMG my overpowered strat I chose got balanced and now I have to take a penatly to try to switch to the new over powered strat of the day This is so unfair don't make me lose 2% of my hardwork!" train of thought.
I have to say suck it up and try to make your team workable or eat the penalty and switch to a completely different setup and in the future remember this game is somewhat of a permanent beta in that it's getting rebalanced so don't just copy the most overpowered strat you can since it will get nuked within 3-9 months of realization.

BootyGod September 22 2008 2:49 PM EDT

Free retrains are for those who don't believe you should be penalized for playing a strategy.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 22 2008 2:55 PM EDT

here is the poll we had regarding free retrains:

the funny thing is that almost 40 percent of us voted against free retrains. i bet most of that same 40 percent also took advantage of the last one to tweak or change their strategies.

if we truly want to the free retrains to stop, don't use them. if jon sees no one using them, why would he bother?

Cube September 22 2008 2:59 PM EDT

I believe free retrains were allowed last time to get people to try out the new spell. I think that was a proper use of a free retrain.

Lord Bob September 22 2008 3:06 PM EDT

I think if we get a free retrain then we also get a free Salvage Yard swap, or a 100% disenchant.

Solare September 22 2008 3:43 PM EDT

Those who say "suck it up" or "its part of the game," obviously don't understand the purpose of this thread.
This isn't about whether I should "suck it up" or not, this is a thread to discuss whether or not we think it will happen.
To say "suck it up" or "its part of the game" is off topic and irrelevant to the topic of the post.
It's obvious some people don't like the idea of free retrain. This isn't a thread to discuss whether its appropriate or not; its a thread to discuss whether it will ever happen again.
And to all of those bashing me for posting this, I obviously wasn't posting this for your sake. I couldn't give a crap what you think of me honestly; this isn't about you.
I appreciate all of those who actually voiced whether or not they think it will happen again.
Thank you for your opinions.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] September 22 2008 3:47 PM EDT

Free retrains are next to pointless.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] September 22 2008 3:50 PM EDT

solare your running a single minion team. Its not going to cost you much to retrain. SUCK IT UP.

King September 22 2008 3:51 PM EDT

bashing is just the posters reasoning behind their obvious response of: No, we do not think and hope it will not happen again for the reasons we stated

Solare September 22 2008 3:56 PM EDT

To Plaques, who cannot understand why I wrote this post. Let me clarify it for you:
I don't mind retraining if I have to, but if there is going to be a free retrain, then I'd have wasted XP.
See? I was writing this to see what other people thought on the matter, not to say "Oh please, oh please, give me a retrain!"
As you may or may not see now, I don't have to 'suck' anything up, though perhaps you should 'suck' something. Like your own words. Eat your hat, and swallow your tongue.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] September 22 2008 4:13 PM EDT

hahaha. solare is pretty funny.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 22 2008 4:21 PM EDT

Quack louder I don't think the admins on mars heard you...

How long have you been here?

Heck I'm amazed you were even aware of the last free retrain considering how early on in CB it was for you... it's amazing the quality of player CB gets these days. It's like they come already prepared to take the top with a solid knowledge of strat and history...

but seriously... Either Jon will give us a the retrain or not... he didn't listen last time, I doubt this time will be different.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 22 2008 4:49 PM EDT

I doubt that there will be a retrain, especially considering the uproar that happened with the last one.

"If it were my fault for training a skill that was useless in the future, then I would feel responsible and retrain taking the xp loss."

One could argue that everybody knew that evasion was overpowered and was overdue for a nerf. I never touched evasion (except in CB1 xD) because I knew 1) It was overpowered and I wasn't going to be lame like every single other person that used evasion, and 2) I knew it would be nerfed... Eventually...

Wizard'sFirstRule September 22 2008 4:59 PM EDT

Jon's stance on people are less likely to wait if they don't know its coming or not doesn't apply to me. I have plenty of time to wait for the next one. :P

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 22 2008 5:47 PM EDT

"One could argue that everybody knew that evasion was overpowered and was overdue for a nerf. I never touched evasion (except in CB1 xD) because I knew 1) It was overpowered and I wasn't going to be lame like every single other person that used evasion, and 2) I knew it would be nerfed... Eventually..."

you should be very proud of yourself! it is only through an amazing sense of modesty and principles that you do not come off sounding smug or condescending. this alpha male thing is really doing wonders for you. you are truly a winner, the rest of us are just wieners. take this from one of the lamers, we can only aspire to your greatness, but your mere presence in cb is a blessing to us all...we are not worthy.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 22 2008 5:56 PM EDT

on a more serious note though, my single minion started out as a fireball toe mage, then went to mm toe until the robf got its change and i switched over to it.

my question is what skill should i have used if not evasion? steel skin wasn't out remember.

evasion was and is really still the only skill for certain builds, especially single minion teams. so when feeling superior, remember that some of us really didn't and don't have much choice.

Solare September 22 2008 5:59 PM EDT

To Novice: I was at about 1.5 mil MPR at the time of the last free retrain. It was discussed thoroughly at that time, so I understand the debate last time, and I didn't want this thread turning into another debate on that issue.
I have a lot of knowledge about CB because I did plenty of research before making a character.
I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "quack louder, I don't think the admins an Mars heard you."
I'm not the type of person that just jumps into something; I always try and find the most suitable strategy before settling into something that cannot be easily undone.

As for the numerous attacks mentioned pertaining to "knowing about evasion being overpowered," I expected a nerf, not the destruction of purpose behind the skill. I was actually quite happy and satisfied by the first nerf.

This thread is getting out of hand, so I won't be responding to any more garbage here. I merely wanted to know whether people thought it was going to happen or not, again. I did not seek argument, and I think it's rather pointless.

Tyriel [123456789] September 22 2008 6:48 PM EDT

Free retrain, and I quit. And I'll even do you all the pleasure of deflating the CB$ market while I'm at it. :)

Free retrains are not only unnecessary, but they're just plain stupid. Why should a person be granted the ability to change without penalty just because of some strategy-related changes in the game? CB is a *strategy* game; it is your strategic choice to use something overpowered/underpowered, and deal with the consequences when the strength of your choices may or may not be changed.

I don't think anybody can honestly say that they didn't see a change to Evasion coming (and I think most would agree that a rather significant nerf was in the near future), and it was your choice to use it. Deal with the outcomes, while those of us who haven't been 'abusing' something that may have been overpowered benefit from choosing the path least likely to be nerfed.

In a strategy game, nothing can truly be completely balanced. Changes happen to try and equalize the least and most powerful options, and part of the strategy is being able to deal with that.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] September 22 2008 7:01 PM EDT

All I can say is Evasion once wasn't overpowered.... It was then buffed to be overpowered... and most recently it has been nerfed to nothingness. I used Evasion back when I was running Vlad Tepes... I have always Ran Evasion and then it got its buff... there is no saying if something is overpowered until a change to the game that changes the mechanics of a certain skill, spell, etc.... So everyone who is saying "Oh it was overpowered you should have expected it to be nerfed!" Just shut it... not everyone jumped on the bandwagon... many were driving the damn thing before the wagon jumpers came around ^_^

Soxjr September 22 2008 9:30 PM EDT

From looking at past actions it seems jon gives free retrains when he is intent on people trying new and useful skills or spells and not just because something changed and people wish to move xp from one area to another. So going by past actions I would assume that there wouldn't be a free retrain this time. I hope this answers your question and also doesn't put any arguments or feelings into the answer.

Solare September 22 2008 10:10 PM EDT

It does, thank you for your input Sox. It does appear to be one of a few possible explanations.

INDColtsFan18 September 22 2008 11:00 PM EDT

I felt your pain, that's why I sold my character and all my gear, and im pretty much starting clean slate after changemonth.

Wizard'sFirstRule September 23 2008 8:18 AM EDT

if that's the objective of free retrain, to let people try new spells, giving the spell a 2% bonus (or something similar, just enough to offset unlearn) XP when trained is the right way to do it.
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