New Player Retention (in General)


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 5 2008 7:46 AM EST

Is it time to get rid of all the new player traps? Like Double Chain Mails.

Is CBs learning curve easy enough, and player retention high enough, that we need newbie traps?

And not to flog a dead horse, but (in response to the answer I was given ages ago) with with growth of cash for a new player, does any new player actually work their way up through the ranks of weapons now?

Any new player at all?

Do mentors encourage new players to work thier way up through the weapon ranks, or fight a handful of battles to buy a rediculously cheap Katana or similar weapon (If they're not advised to go Mage to begin with).

Are DCM and Tulwars needed to weed the player base?

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 5 2008 7:50 AM EST

Agreed; these things were extremely confusing things when I first started, and they don't really add anything to the game.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 5 2008 8:14 AM EST

i also agree, with n*b bonuses being what they are, the lower levels just zoom by and there is no reason to go through more than two weapons, a starter one and then your main. i would think that rentals would fill any gaps in that 2 weapon progression quite sufficiently.

Flamey December 5 2008 8:15 AM EST

Extremely hard game at first. If the playerbase wants to grow, it needs to be made simpler. A cross between the tutorial (too easy) and actual game (too hard) is needed. Though some of you found it easy, not everyone is a genius.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 5 2008 8:23 AM EST

i have thought that possibly we need pre-made classes:

single mage
single melee
single archer

they would start with a base weapon if necessary for damage. it could also be broken down into the different dd types for mage. perhaps free retraining could be given during the first 30 days or somesuch.

Flamey December 5 2008 8:24 AM EST

It'll never happen. Even if its logical. Probably goes against Jon's thoughts.

QBsutekh137 December 5 2008 9:51 AM EST

I think that is a great idea, dude, except for the Single-Minion aspect. Flamey's right -- Jonathan won't go for a state-sponsored single-mage start. Maybe make the default builds at least be trios:

EMW
ET(r)W
ET(m)W

?

Not sure. Seems like an interesting idea, though... And start them with gear a step above useless things like tulwars and DCMs, yet don't give them anything high-end. Also, then very much stress the greater tattoo necessity, and explain in the tutorial which tattoos work best with which build...

More of my food for thought...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 5 2008 9:57 AM EST

yeah, the single minion idea was not about supporting the red-headed step-children of cb, but rather allowing people to choose when they hire other minions and being in control of their own minion xp distribution.

i would love to see new users actually spawn with a blank greater tat that is freely inked into one of their choosing.

QBsutekh137 December 5 2008 10:19 AM EST

The tat idea is interesting, but imagine the flood of tats... Any gear that auto-spawns with a new character needs to be very carefully controlled. While player retention may not be all that hot, there are still a lot of new characters who play for a week then quit. Think of all the tats flying around...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 5 2008 10:22 AM EST

i think jon does do some type of id number for items, perhaps the tat's that auto-spawn could all have a unique id # that cannot be traded, modified or sold to the store other that its initial inking.

if they do want to change tats at a later date, they would then need to buy them.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 5 2008 10:22 AM EST

similar to what is done with the t-shirts.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 5 2008 10:34 AM EST

it could also convert to a normal tattoo at a certain level in order to weed out the ones that do no stick with the game whilst not penalizing those with the dedication to hang on.

Godpanda December 5 2008 10:39 AM EST

I recently convinced a good friend to start playing. Here was his initial responses:

XXXX said:
jesus though man
James said:
?
XXXX said:
so much text
XXXX said:
I click links hopeing for simple answers and it's pages
XXXX said:
PAGES


Maybe it would be in the best interest of new players to create a sort of... Mini- Help! Give them the simple answers they need in the beginning and let them slowly move into the deeper content of the game.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 5 2008 10:53 AM EST

Wiki improvement is #2.
I think the early game could easily be both simplified and spiced up by raising the level required for many attributes.

Lord Bob December 5 2008 11:17 AM EST

"Is it time to get rid of all the new player traps? Like Double Chain Mails."

No. They just need to be tweaked (buffed) to be viable for use. The solution isn't to get rid of the items, it's to make them suck less.

"does any new player actually work their way up through the ranks of weapons now?"

No, and I see three reasons for this:
1.) The linear damage upgrade curve on weapons. Before it was cheap to add a few "x" on a low-end weapon and then use that to save up for something bigger (not necessarily a high-end rare). Now it's stupid to spend a single dollar on weak weapon damage when you know a rare is just around the corner (see 2 and 3), and there is no "soft cap" on what you can pump into that once you get it.
2.) The NUB. Loads of cash and a flooded market (see 3) mean it's easy as pie to get a rare weapon within weeks of joining, if not sooner. Heck, Executioner's swords don't even sell for 100k anymore, and I remember back in CB1 and the early days here how it took me forever to save up for one. And that's not even a top five weapon.
3.) Proliferation of rares. They're everywhere, especially the weapons. The game is so oriented to "hurry up and get a rare" style game play that I wonder why they're even called rares. There's absolutely no challenge in getting one anymore, and it's very easy for a cash-heavy NUB to progress to a top five weapon without even looking at anything in the middle.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 5 2008 12:11 PM EST

I echo what you're saying LB, but;

"No. They just need to be tweaked (buffed) to be viable for use. The solution isn't to get rid of the items, it's to make them suck less."

How do you make them suck less, without making them better than, or just duplicates of, the existing good items.

What can you do make Tulwars good enough to use without making Kat's obselete? Or changing DCM so they don't do the same to either MCMs, or Adams, but are actually good enough to use?

There's only so much CB can do with items, and most of it already exists.

Sure, you could give them all nifty new abilities, but then that just makes Kats and MCMs (etc) Obselete themselves, and focuses the problem on them instead.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 5 2008 12:14 PM EST

There are 11 recent Auctions where Kat's have sold for less than 13,000 CBD.

How many fights does it take a totally new player to earn that much?

There are 25 weapons in the Weapon Shop far worse than a Kat, going for more than 13K. Are they anything but a new player trap?

Lord Bob December 5 2008 12:57 PM EST

"How do you make them suck less, without making them better than, or just duplicates of, the existing good items."

Well, let's take a look at what makes these items "suck." It's basically two things: penalties, and the availability of obviously better equipment. That second part I already addressed. Penalties for all items need to be drastically rescaled. I had written an article about one possible way to do this, but guess if I can find that right now.

"What can you do make Tulwars good enough to use without making Kat's obselete? Or changing DCM so they don't do the same to either MCMs, or Adams, but are actually good enough to use?"

The Tulwar/Katana thing has nothing to do with one "sucking." They are two perfectly acceptable weapons appropriate for their respective PR brackets (low PR for Tulwars, mid for Katanas). The problem here is again the proliferation of rares that makes these items worthless because it's so easy to get better stuff earlier.

The DCM would be on my short list of things to change first. I think the penalty is way too steep for such a low-level item. I'd rather remove the penalty on them so they are viable for mid-range fighters, or even a cheap alternative for upper-level enchanters, mages, etc.

The steep penalty of the Adam is fine because it is the heaviest armor in the game.

I'd post more, but I'm off to lunch.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 5 2008 1:06 PM EST

"The Tulwar/Katana thing has nothing to do with one "sucking." They are two perfectly acceptable weapons appropriate for their respective PR brackets (low PR for Tulwars, mid for Katanas). The problem here is again the proliferation of rares that makes these items worthless because it's so easy to get better stuff earlier."

I disagree here. I don't think Tulwars have a bracket any more. The only brackets are Starting Weapons (Base Daggers, Rapiers, Whips, etc) and End Game. There's just no room for anything else. And personally, there hasn't bee for year, if ever.

And Tulwars suck because Kats are better in every repsect. More damage, cheaper curves and just as cheap easy (within reason) to get.

"The steep penalty of the Adam is fine because it is the heaviest armor in the game."

Yeah, I've no problems witht he Adam. It and the MCM fill a niche. But is there even need for an armour in between? Really, how many use the MC? If that isn;t even used, then lessening the penaltiy on the DCM will achive nothing. It still won't be used. Ever.

Lord Bob December 5 2008 1:35 PM EST

"The only brackets are Starting Weapons (Base Daggers, Rapiers, Whips, etc) and End Game."

See problem #2: The NUB.

Cube December 5 2008 1:45 PM EST

Only solutions I can think of
Eliminate the stores completely.

Scale up the damage on all low level items. Let dagger do 1/3rd the damage of a katana. Let Scythes do 3/4ths a Katana. Something like that. (Leave main weapons alone)

Limits on what items you can use at each level. (annoying)

Delay the NUB by a week?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 5 2008 1:49 PM EST

You beat me to it... Delaying the bonus is really key to most of this

QBOddBird December 5 2008 1:49 PM EST

Simplify the game from the start.

Create a new user interface that is simplified, i.e. for the first month they don't even KNOW about guardian angel, steel skin, junction, or decay. Only show dagger/whips, Elven Stilettos, and Katanas in the store, and give an error message if they try to train more than 2 things on any of their minions.

Make it simple like that for a month, then gradually more features and options open up.

Wizard'sFirstRule December 5 2008 2:02 PM EST

more like show a warning message if they try to train too many things (which they can propmtly ignore and still train them).

as far as the items goes, I am siding with GL, there just isn't a need for mid range when rares are everywhere.
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