Help me understand Junction + MgS + JKF (in General)


blackshadowshade December 19 2008 5:50 AM EST

Hi all,

At the moment, I don't quite understand my fight stats.

The problem is the Mage Shield. From my calculations, my Junction after the penalty should still have effect 1.0 (and is showing as that). However, the negative effect of the Mage Shield is still affecting the UC of the JKF.

1. Without MgS

The minion Hatefer:

Hit Points: 27,209
Armor: 15
Strength: 22 / 20
Dexterity: 20
Junction: 1.00
Decay: 0.5 / 0
Ethereal Chains: 33 / 33

A Dagger [4x1] (+0)
A Pair of Helm's Gauntlets [4] (+11)
Spirit of Danica Maupoissant lvl 1,371,953

Post-battle stats:
blackshadowshade Kano-san Hatefer

Hit Points 931,634 359,210 27,209
Strength 20 410,213 22
Dexterity 17 713,415 20
Armor Class 71 15 15
Unarmed Combat 1,460
Melee Base to-Hit 50 60
Melee Bonus to-Hit 87 0
Direct Damage 990,451 516
Total Evasion 79 59


2. With MgS

Hit Points: 27,209
Armor: 15
Strength: 22 / 20
Dexterity: 19 / 20
Junction: 1.00 / 1.00
Decay: 0.5 / ?
Ethereal Chains: 20 / 33

A Dagger [4x1] (+0)
A Pair of Helm's Gauntlets [4] (+11)
Aegis of Angelic Fortune [0] (+30)
Spirit of Danica Maupoissant lvl 1,371,974


Post-battle stats:

Post-battle stats
blackshadowshade Kano-san Hatefer

Hit Points 931,634 20,882 27,209
Strength 20 410,219 22
Dexterity 17 713,426 19
Armor Class 71 15 15
Unarmed Combat 1,360
Melee Base to-Hit 50 60
Melee Bonus to-Hit 81 0
Direct Damage 990,451 0
Total Evasion 79 59




My calculation of the amount of Junction I need is as follows:

Tattoo level is approximately 1,371,974 * 1.04
Required Junction effect is thus 1,371,974 * 1.04 / 5
Trained Junction level must then be 1,371,974 * 1.04 / (5 * 0.99) = 288240.

I have Junction trained to level 293,713 (raw level 296,680).

What am I missing?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 19 2008 6:31 AM EST

Some Penalties aren't reduced by Junction. The -5UC for using a Shield is one. Things like the increased EO penalty from an AoF is another.

It's really only the -STR/-DEX that gets reduced to zero (if negative after bonuses) from Junction.

blackshadowshade December 19 2008 8:30 AM EST

Thanks, GL! That's not in the Wiki. Guess I'll have to think about whether it's worth using the Mage Shield after all ...

blackshadowshade December 19 2008 8:35 AM EST

Currently, in the Wiki, it says:

"Junction transfers both positive and negative effects (such as Armor DX penalties) but as junction gets higher it can block out the negative. At 1.0 you get 100% of the positive effect for most things, and 150% for ST and DX. At 1.0 you get 0% of the negative effect."

I can't see an easy way to rework this to include the exceptions. Anyone see a way to reword this so that it's correct?

TheHatchetman December 19 2008 10:29 AM EST

"Junction transfers both positive and negative effects (such as Armor DX penalties) but as junction gets higher it can block out the negative. At 1.0 you get 100% of the positive effect for most things, and 150% for ST and DX. At 1.0 you get 0% of the negative effect. Some Penalties aren't reduced by Junction. The -5UC for using a Shield is one. Things like the increased EO penalty from an AoF is another."

C+P ftw :P

blackshadowshade December 19 2008 10:43 AM EST

Nice, Hatch, but it means that the first sentence is now not completely correct.

It's a bit like those quizzes where the last question says:
"20. Ignore the previous questions, write your name on the exam paper, and hand it in now."


You see my problem ...

QBOddBird December 19 2008 12:20 PM EST

"it _CAN_ block out the negative"


I highlighted the clause for you; it doesn't make the first statement incorrect to add in the amendment Hatchet posted.

blackshadowshade December 19 2008 12:48 PM EST

I guess my problem is with the word "can", which can also be incorrectly interpreted as "is able to".

Adminedyit December 19 2008 3:40 PM EST

This sounds like a job for Bast to explain the difference between "can" and "does"!!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 19 2008 8:33 PM EST

Always here to help! ;)
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