helm's gauntlets weirdness (in General)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 7:32 AM EDT

my named, plus 13 hg's have this effect on my jiggy's uc. with them on it is listed as 4580 in post. without them on it is listed and 4260. that comes out to 320/20 or 16.

shouldn't that be closer to 20?

i also never saw this double dip that people were talking about either, but that is besides the point. what am i missing here?

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 7:38 AM EDT

If it helps, my UC is 2020 without my HGs and 2420 with my unnamed HG +13.

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 7:40 AM EDT

(i.e. I get the full ceil(1.5*13) = 20 bonus)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 8:05 AM EDT

perhaps it is a naming issue? anyone else with named helm's that could post their stats?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 9:31 AM EDT

shadowshade and i traded hg's to see if it was a naming issue, his unnamed ones took me to 4560, so that isn't it.

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 10:03 AM EDT

Well, with the named +13s, I get UC increased to 2340.

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 10:04 AM EDT

Looks like both a naming problem AND some other problem, dudemus.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 10:05 AM EDT

so they are only giving you 16 as well? this is crazy!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 8 2009 10:06 AM EDT

That's obviously less than the named +13s! ;)


Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 10:06 AM EDT

i hope yours give you your 20 when they come back to ya!

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 10:08 AM EDT

I'll let you know in half an hour. :p

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 10:37 AM EDT

Damn! My UC is now down to 2320 with the HGs on! You've hexed my HGs!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 10:39 AM EDT

"shadowshade and i traded hg's to see if it was a naming issue, his unnamed ones took me to 4560, so that isn't it."

not sure what i was thinking here, but 4560-4260=300

300/12 is only 15

so your unnamed ones were only giving me 15 whilst giving you 20.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 10:40 AM EDT

i am sorry, i was afraid that would happen after your other post. perhaps we should rename these accursed gauntlets. perhpas nightstrike will get to this bug as quickly as he has been on the others.

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 10:47 AM EDT

Hey, don't worry! I haven't lost anyone off my fightlist, and I'm sure NightStrike will get onto the problem before it affects me.

*crosses fingers*

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 10:48 AM EDT

So, as penance, are you going to contact NS and add this issue to the known issues page? :p

BadFish May 8 2009 10:52 AM EDT

uh, 300/12 is 25.

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 10:59 AM EDT

He meant 20. i.e. 300/20 = 15

AdminNightStrike May 8 2009 10:59 AM EDT

I went through and verified all of this with Nem's character, and things were operating perfectly. Ie, exactly as they should. I'm not sure why you would be different.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 11:00 AM EDT

d'oh, the 12 should have been 20 above.

as for contacting ns, i had sent him a message earlier as he also has named hg's on his character.

i also added it to known issues within the last hour. my penance is complete! ; )

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 11:02 AM EDT

You could always get him to send you his HGs so that you can hex those too. :)

AdminNightStrike May 8 2009 11:02 AM EDT

I also don't have a JKF to test.

Make sure when you are verifying how the HG works that you do so with nothing else equipped (ie, elven gear).

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 11:05 AM EDT

now it gets stranger:

tat only post battle uc = 2940

equipped only my named +13 hg's for:

post battle uc = 2940

AdminNightStrike May 8 2009 11:08 AM EDT

Also, don't forget that HG don't add 1.5 * the number listed in the post battle stats. They add 1.5 * the UC effect. For instance, my UC effect goes from 115 to 141 with nothing equipped but my +16 named ( so 17*1.5 = 26, 26+115 = 141). This boosts my stats on the fight page from 2300 to 2820.

This is not a boost of 2300*1.5.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 8 2009 11:12 AM EDT

Each increase in effect gives +20 to the UC post battle stat though. ;)

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 11:15 AM EDT

Yes, 17*1.5*20 = 520, which is the difference between your 2300 and 2820.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 8 2009 11:16 AM EDT

(Can't edit posts. :( )

"115 to 141 with nothing equipped but my +16 named ( so 17*1.5 = 26, 26+115 = 141). This boosts my stats on the fight page from 2300 to 2820."

115 to 141 is an increase of 26. 26 * 20 = 520

Your post battle UC went from 2300 to 2820, an increase of 520.

That's what I've (and I think others) have been using to check what boosts Ucs been getting.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 11:19 AM EDT

"They add 1.5 * the UC effect."

actually, each plus adds 1.5 levels of uc i thought. so my named 13 would add 1.5 * 13 = 19.5 rounded up to 20 plus whatever extra for being named. so therefore something over 20 * 20 = 400 for at least a 400 effect to my total uc number shown in post battle stats.

i certainly wish it was a flat 1.5 multiplier to my total uc effect and will take that any day! ; )

AdminNightStrike May 8 2009 11:55 AM EDT

Yeah, that was a typo... You can see what I meant from the math I posted :)

And, GL, I realize that, but I couldn't tell from dude's posts that that is what he meant. There were overloaded 20's in the equations :)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 11:59 AM EDT

if you want my jkf for an hour just tell me where to send it as well as my viral hg's.

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 5:21 PM EDT

OK, on Dudemus' request, here are my JKF's UC stats with various equipment, all with the AoJ on:

Naked: 1460
With HG +13: 1860
With HG +13 and BoM: 1760
With EB +26: 2020
With HG +13 and EB +26: 2420

I'm all out of BA. If you want me to check something else, let me know.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 5:25 PM EDT

so you are back up to normal now and no longer hexed?

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 5:26 PM EDT

I don't know. I'm waiting on the next 8 BA to check with the full array of equipment!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 8 2009 5:42 PM EDT

so, on the last one with 2420 that was not with all gear, without your shield probably.

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 5:42 PM EDT

OK, here we go again:

The full lot (AoJ, EB, HG, named HoE, BoM, 2008 T-shirt): 2320 (so still hexed).

Let's take off items one by one then:
All minus 2008 T-shirt: 2320
All minus named HoE: 2320
All minus HG: 2020

Just checking All again: Yup, still 2320.

All minus EB: 1760
All minus EB and HG: 1460
All minus EB, HG and BoM: 1460

It looks like there's some sort of problem when the HG are equipped with the BoM.

blackshadowshade May 8 2009 6:05 PM EDT

OK, a little more testing, but just of my BoM and my MgS (for comparison).

The UC level is 1460 naked, and UNCHANGED when just adding the BoM and the MgS. The only time the -100 (or alternatively -5) penalty for using a shield turns up is when there is another item giving a bonus, like the HG or EB.

I don't know whether this is a bug or just how it is, but it's certainly not what's in the Wiki.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 8 2009 6:15 PM EDT

That's not a bug

It's the way the Junction 'bonus' works.

Once you've summed all penalties and bonuses if it's negative it gets set to zero.

If it's positive, it's still reduced by any negative effects you're wearing.

AdminNightStrike May 9 2009 3:29 PM EDT

Dudemus, when you unequipped everything but the HG and saw your JKF UC level not change, did you also unequip the AOJ?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 9 2009 3:47 PM EDT

hehe, that would probably be it. new results coming, barring any further stupidity on my part!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 9 2009 3:55 PM EDT

my shield penalty only takes points from uc when the gloves are equipped is i think what is happening here.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 9 2009 4:04 PM EDT

Yes, that is what is happening. I have already been testing this and elven gear is unaffected by the shield penalty. HG are though. This is because of the way junction is set up where the penalties and bonuses are added together. The shield penalty and the bonus from HG happen at the same time that is why only they are effected by it.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 9 2009 4:13 PM EDT

so, just for my understanding, the shield penalty to uc only applies to bonus uc granted by items?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 10 2009 5:15 AM EDT

The Shield penalty is a direct minus to UC effect. Only two items in game increase UC Effect currently, HG and the GI, and you can't use the Gi with Junction.

It's becuase of Junctions 'set penalties to zero' that Dex based increases to UC don't see the shield penalty.

There's no effect bonus to add, so Junction see's the -5 effect from Shields as a negative that ets reduced to zero.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 10 2009 5:43 AM EDT

GL explained what is happening perfectly.

AdminNightStrike May 18 2009 4:25 PM EDT

Junction, by design, will combine all the bonuses and penalties of a given type, and at 100% junction, will ensure that the aggregate is not less than zero.

The -5 penalty from various items is a penalty to UC, so all of those get aggregated together.

The bonuses from elven gear apply to DX, not to UC directly, so those are treated separately.

This is all by design, so there is no further bug in this area. That is not to say that next changemonth might turn the world upside down, of course :)
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