Evasion greater than Dexterity penalty (in General)


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 30 2009 8:08 AM EDT

Is it only for the portion of trained Evasion that's higher than your Dex, or does your whole amount of trained Evasion get penalised, if you surpass your Dex at all?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 30 2009 8:14 AM EDT

if your evasion is greater than your dex, then take your total evasion from the skill and multiply that times .6 and then convert that number for the effect. so the whole enchilada is affected.

blackshadowshade October 30 2009 8:15 AM EDT

Only the portion that is in excess.

blackshadowshade October 30 2009 8:16 AM EDT

Dude, I don't think that's right.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 30 2009 8:22 AM EDT

well i am speaking of experience from a jiggy with the minion training evasion. there is no dex check for the jiggy or else there wouldn't be a penalty at all. since the 60 percent penalty is brought over due to the minion having not enough dex, the full 60 percent applies to the jiggy's evasion.

on a minion i am not so sure as it could take that into account, but for the jiggy it certainly does not.

blackshadowshade October 30 2009 8:27 AM EDT

I'm using a junctioned Jig. At the moment, I'm training DX equal to half my UC, which is equivalently DX equal to the conferred Evasion.

I do not see huge jumps when the DX drops a little bit below half, thus, I conclude that it can't be an all-or-nothing scenario.

blackshadowshade October 30 2009 8:27 AM EDT

(naturally, the same is true about the minion that is training UC)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 30 2009 8:33 AM EDT

50 percent is only if the combat gi is used. 33 percent is the amount given to evasion with no gi.

you should be quite a bit over the threshold and would have to drop down below a third to see any change.

blackshadowshade October 30 2009 8:39 AM EDT

Ah, that's nice to know. Thanks, dude!

So, you're saying that there's a huge jump in your evasion when you train your DX from 32% to 33%? (and is there rounding in the percentage?)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 30 2009 8:43 AM EDT

all that i have experience with is the junctioned jiggy and the minion training evasion.

if just evasion is used, the jiggy's total evasion plus junctioned evasion is then multiplied by the .6 to get the final evasion number and effect.

if the minion has dex equal to evasion, the jiggy gets it all.

i had just assumed that it worked the same way on a minion, but that could be an erroneous assumption.

for your team though, it is all about the minion as the jiggy is never even looked at in the evasion/penalty calculations.

Wraithlin October 30 2009 8:44 AM EDT

The description in the wiki is pretty cut and dry too. It says you have two choices, either train more Dx than Evasion or take the 40% reduction.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 30 2009 8:44 AM EDT

So if you have a 1M Dex and a 1,000,001 Evasion, the whole amount of your Evasion is subject to the 60% Penalty?

Sucky...

Hold on, I'll go test.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 30 2009 8:46 AM EDT

OK, it's only the portion above DEX that is reduced. Phew.

By chance I had 37,272 DEX and 37,273 Evasion (28).

Removing my LRoBF (to get rid of any extra Evasion) I fought (and lost!) once.

Post battle gave my Evasion as 28.

If the whole lot was subject to penalty, I'd have lost some Evasion.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 30 2009 8:47 AM EDT

Er, make that 36,899 and 36,900 after penalties. ;)

blackshadowshade October 30 2009 8:49 AM EDT

That's how I thought it worked. Actually, it matches my experience as I was training my DX up from base to (now) 50%, where I saw the evasion slowly increasing. However, that was a couple of weeks ago, and I never took real note of it, so I wasn't sure enough to assert it.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 30 2009 8:51 AM EDT

well then there is another problem with the current junctioning of evasion on the jiggy. of course if it did a check to see how much evasion would be penalized by being lesser than the dex it would find more dex than evasion and penalize nothing.

Wraithlin October 30 2009 8:52 AM EDT

Someone should change the wiki then. Good job Gentleman.

blackshadowshade October 30 2009 8:53 AM EDT

GL, feel like borrowing my Jig to test the junctioned Evasion effect?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 30 2009 9:34 AM EDT

That's cool, I've got a little Jig to use. ;)

brb!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 30 2009 9:42 AM EDT

OK. No Junction.

Jig: level 34,070
Dex (50%): 17,035
UC (50%): 20/50 (to-hit)
Evasion: 13. (should be 5,622 evasion, which is just over the amount needed for an effect of 13)

All checks out.

I'll unlearn my DEX and EVA. Then Juntion over 11,410 Evasion (to keep it under DEX, then 11,500 Evasion (To take it over it's DEX).

brb.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 30 2009 9:49 AM EDT

Right, untrained. With Junction;

No Evasion trained: Jigs Evasion 10 (?? Dropped. No other penalties..)
Base Evasion Trained: 11
14,410 Evasion: 17
11,500 Evasion: 17
20,000 Evasion: 20

I then trained 20,000 DEX back onto my minion

20,000 Evasion: 23

Seems to me it's only the portion over DEX that is penalised. Even with Junction.

Sickone October 30 2009 9:53 AM EDT

It's a (somewhat known) junctioning problem.
I mean, the AoJ was riddled with weird stuff from the moment it was introduced hurriedly, and stuff was slowly fixed for it... but still a lot of things are wierd with it, especially skill junctioning with familiars that already have a skill (Halidon and Jiggy).

Sickone October 30 2009 9:55 AM EDT

Sorry GL - I was typing while you were testing...
Well, at least it appears Evasion and Jiggy works like it should :)
Remaining : Archery with Halidon and Bloodlust with Jiggy (right?) ;)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 30 2009 10:04 AM EDT

"14,410 Evasion: 17
11,500 Evasion: 17
20,000 Evasion: 20"

aren't those all showing a 40 percent penalty though?


perhaps you need to do a test with dex not at base but not matching? or do i just not understand?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 30 2009 10:06 AM EDT

Ah, I tohught it would take the Jigs DEX into account as well.

blackshadowshade October 30 2009 10:07 AM EDT

As I understand it, it's supposed to be based solely on the Minion's DX.

AdminTitan October 30 2009 10:08 AM EDT

^ Yes it is.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 30 2009 10:16 AM EDT

OK, one simple test later, and it's not the whole DEX. I'm not gonna do any more untraining on this. :P

Going back to the old Values;

14,410 (Trained EVA) + 5,622 (Jig EVA) = (21)
We saw (17), which is 60%.

20,000 (Trained EVA) + 5,622 (Jig EVA) = (24)
Wes saw (20), which is 60%.

I retrained back to 14,410, but trained 10K DEX to go with it. I got (20) Evasion effect.

By traning DEX *under* my total Evasion, the Evasion effect had increased. Which means that a portion of it isn't effect by the penalty.

So the DEX penalty can only be applied to the trained Evasion above your DEX.

;)
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