Comparing various tattoos (in General)

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] December 12 2009 3:46 AM EST

First of all, thank you to Godwolf for the excellent analysis of the RoBF. That got me to thinking, from a point of stats, what will be the most beneficial to use? (this may very well not be the most battle capable tatt, just the one with the most extra points for you)

Here we go:
a) DD Familiar: 25%hp, 100%dd = 125% effect.
You gain 1,250,000 levels. (not exp)
b) RoS: 50% ED boost (plus DM resist, nonmeasurable)= 50% effect
You gain 500,000 levels. (however: on AS minion, 4 minions, if the 145% effect from the Wiki is right, you get 725,000hp)
c) ToA: 50%ST, 33%DX (plus PTH bonus, ignoring for simplicity) = 83% effect.
d) Hal: 33%HP, 40%ST, 40%DX (ignore box x & PTH for simplicity) = 113% effect.
e) Jig: 50%HP, 25%ST, 50%DX (ignore UC to equalize against hal & ToA) = 125% effect.
f) RoBF, ToE, RoE: all differ vastly in benefits and are relatively ineffective at giving levels of stats to your team.

In conclusion , from a 1 million level tattoo (no other items contributing) you gain these many levels (not experience):
#1: Jig: 1,250,000 (benefit: 50% UC & PTH & minor evasion)
#2: DD Familiar: 1,250,000
#3: Hal: 1,130,000 (benefit: free x & PTH)
#4: ToA: 830,000 (benefit: PTH)
#5: RoS: 725,000 (benefit: DM protect) //(assuming optimum 4 minion AS setup)

I am surprised at the results. I had not ever examined our tattoo options very thoroughly. I had always assumed the RoS was near the top by providing a massive boost to AS, yet it falls at the very last spot. DD familiars always sounded weak to me, and yet they tie for the most bang for your buck for what you get in raw stats along with the impressive Jig.

Thoughts? I'm starting to think DD familiar is the way to get a rocking NCB going. I suppose my next post tomorrow, unless someone wants to beat me to it, will be to try to estimate the levels these tattoos give if boosted by rare equipment of reasonable NW and with new bonuses listed: ie: HoC-able, NSC, leadership +16% to DD & ST, +20% DX from EB, etc.

iBananco [Blue Army] December 12 2009 5:00 AM EST

Raw stats are almost meaningless when it comes to determining utility. Easy counterexamples are a 500% VA tat and a tat that adds 900 magical AC to the team, but nothing else.

lostling December 12 2009 6:48 AM EST

On the contrary... Levels are everything and how they affect each other... The more effective levels you can bring to bear on your enemy the easier it is to win

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 12 2009 7:17 AM EST


I did this ages ago Vay, but the tattoo's have changed so much since then! ;)

You shouldn't discount the anti DM of the RoS when looking at what it provides though.

QBJohnnywas December 12 2009 7:24 AM EST

The other thing to consider is that some of the the benefits of the tatts vary depending on their size. For instance the ToA hits it's stride quite early on, but once you start getting to the upper levels you need to train st and dex to make it work better, because those bonuses aren't enough to make a decent tank higher up I think. And the PTH works well for quite a way and then again you need to spend money to boost it, due to the raised cost of PTH upgrades.

But then it hits it's stride again once it's massive (10 mill lvls for instance)

You should also consider what level you're fighting at. I'm using a 5 mill lvl ToE. Which when I go completely anti tank works brilliantly. But up here any of the other tattoo types at 5 mill lvls are simply too small, when you're competing with tatts of 9 mill or bigger.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 12 2009 10:37 AM EST

the non-linear damage model of the jig counters much of its impressiveness over time as can be seen here:

it does start out well in the early mpr game but does not hold up and will not in the future.

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] December 12 2009 8:01 PM EST

GL: I figured someone had beat me to it, but I couldn't recall seeing it on the forums any time in the recent past. And I don't mean to discount RoS's DM resistance, but it's hard to include that in a limited comparison of how much they add to skill levels.

And I do think levels are extremely important when selecting a tattoo. Consider that the vast majority of rare armors in the game exist solely to help you gain experience levels. By picking a focused strat and using extra skill levels gained by a tattoo and armor, you are able to beat much higher teams with more mpr.

The unfortunate thing is there is no way to effectively measure the special bonuses they provide against each other. A ToA's PTH isn't easy to compare to RoS's DM resistance. They are specialized to a specific strat. They can be compared, but not quantitatively.

kevlar December 12 2009 8:04 PM EST

I can tell you at the semi-middle-top a SF is not that great. For a near 9mil level tat, I'm fighting some targest that make the Familiar average less than 600k per shot. Starting off though DDs can really help.

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] December 12 2009 8:24 PM EST

True, I suppose a lot of people have good methods of reducing magic damage the higher up you get. That would explain the RoBF popularity in big part, correct?

On a side note, I noticed Haste casts at 68% of its effect. On a 4 minion team, this would mean you had a 272% effect. This would mean that a team using RoS (50%extra) on haste would in fact be getting 1,360,000 skill levels, making it the most effective tattoo by far. Maybe not the most useful, but that is interesting. Of course most of that experience would be going to waste (except on a 4 minion tank team lol).

kevlar December 12 2009 8:27 PM EST

It's really not about good methods. It's about the DD familiars are very under powered. The methods are just handouts. I'm boggled that a near 9mil lvl SF can fall to sub 600k avg damage, on top of the possibility of taking AMF damage. Mind boggling.
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