Forging, A Disertation (in General)
January 27 2010 2:31 PM EST
Figured I would give my ~910 word essay on forging a new home.
More to come later today after I go to class, as promised.
January 27 2010 2:31 PM EST
"Sorry for wall of text but its good stuff and you should all read it.
Fighting with over 50% challenge bonus gives you approximately 15% more money than forging at 75% NW difference --no training by the character and a constant average of 50% Challenge bonus, and the forging money earned was independent of actual completion of + or x, rather dependant on the percentage of total NW forged in 1000 BA (tested by myself a long time ago-- don't have the data anymore) per 1000 BA. (The forging was on an item with ~1.00 effeciency---guess what, most items have less). The study that I did was in an economic clan (so devoid of any clan bonus, I'm not even sure if the clan bonus gives $ bonus or just exp having not been in one for 3 years or so).
A 20% bonus to forging would not be 'imba' because this only offsets the money difference by 5%. Since forging does not net any exp gain, your BA is half as useful as fighting characters. While it is true that you can forge your own stuff thus meaning that your BA spent goes directly into YOUR NW (rather than ~75% back) This still does not offset the economic benefits of fighting (especially with higher challenge bonuses) Assuming the challenge bonus to rewards formula is linear, (if it wasnt then fighting would net SIGNIFICANTLY more money than forging/BA as bonus increases) then fighting is clearly better than forging.
Now if forging was never meant to be preformed long term, then why include it in the first place? Most of the NW differences that are worth forging for or getting a forger for is high enough that it would take at least 1 week for the highest rated forger to finish (I'm talking NW differences greater than 2.5M)
Now lets say something significant like 20M nw increase, then you are talking significantly more time. Not to mention that if you are forging your own stuff, lets say for a NCB like I am, then you cannot do your NCB and are in a state of 'pause.'
In my own humble opinion, forgers should be paid at some percentage+15%-20%, thus covering forging fees, which are normally not covered by consumers of the forging business (thus meaning that forgers actual profit is somewhere around 60% NW difference after forging fees.
Now the forging tattoo: it would have to scale to the character otherwise it would be totally pointless as a tattoo-why not make it a pair of boots then or 'forging gloves.' Instead, you should get a bonus similar to (tattoo level)/(max tattoo level) X some fixed percentage (I would say 30%). This way it scales for huge MPR characters whose tattoos are way below MTL, which is awesome for the forging market because it means at lower MPRs you can be more competitive (inversely it affects the character market because now top mpr sellouts will go for less (less demand) because forgers will have less need for them).
ALSO this has the implication that BA spent in the forge will produce exp--which I believe should not be given to the character and its minions.
This would call for a new brand of exp to be created--tattoo exp. For fighting it would just be the exp gained from battle, but for forging it should be accumulated after you finish a cycle and equal to the exp you would gain from fighting, adjusted for challenge bonus in a way similar to this: Constant (0-100) +Forging Efficiency Function, where the forging efficiency function would be defined as forging efficiency (FE) approaches .5 or 50%, the forging efficiency function would approach (100-Constant) and as the FE approaches 1.5 (I dont think off the top of my head there are any efficiencies higher than 1.5 excluding the X on a weapon) the forging efficiency function would approach (Constant-other thing which im too tired to figure out right now as its 2 AM). This would have to be adjusted for weapon X, so I would recommend having the cycle for X weapons to be adjusted for a set amount of BA which is greater than 1 actual cycle (like if it takes 10 BA for a 1M mpr forger to increase the X by 5, then the cycle used in forging efficiency would be like 30 BA), making it easier to get the forging efficiency formula.
So that would be a rough estimate of forging challenge bonus (people would love to forge hods then! winkwink) which is probably clownshoes wrong because I'm so tired right now (maybe i will look back and adjust it and do the math when I'm less tired, or you guys can for me).
The tattoo would also allow forgers to be more competitive if they ever chose to fight, because they could just reink the tat (which is a reason they should be inkable) instead of having to buy one. The tattoo is currently the other HUGE difference between forging and fighting. You could fight an NCB and at the end of it you have this HUGE tat which you can sell for obscene amount of USD/CBD while those forgers are sitting there like 'Damn wish I had one of those!"
Anyway there are really good ideas and analysis there I promise (maybe tomorrow I can make it sound better and make more sense, but I'm gonna post it now) "
I think forging is that way because Jon does not want to encourage people to *not* fight. If forging was made as profitable or even more profitable than fighting, at least some casual players would switch over to forging since it's easier. Fighting is the main feature of CB, not forging, and in it lies strategy, lacking in forging as far as I can tell.
back in CB1, forging didn't cost anything either. There wasn't a 10% Black Smith tax. Forging was only to be a way to increase your own X or + on a weapon if you didn't have the money to pay for it.
January 27 2010 3:40 PM EST
I remember getting charged by the BS in CB1. You're saying it was free?
January 27 2010 4:18 PM EST
Fighting, for the most part is MUCH easier than forging. You find somebody who gives a good challenge bonus and farm them until you dont get a good challenge bonus. Forging requires much more attention to detail.
Yes, Jon did say that forging sucks so that people fight, but forging can be better while keeping the emphasis on fighting.
If everybody was a forger, then there would be no point to being a forger (other than to sell out, which I think people could boycott if they wanted) because there would be no supply of items to forge (other than for yourself which does not give you a profit unless you sell the item). Forging should be economically more beneficial than fighting because otherwise what would be the point to forging. I already demonstrated that forging your own items is a waste of time if you are trying to remain competitive because of the BA requirement to hit those + goals.
Besides that fighting is MUCH more cooler than forging (which factors into why people fight rather than forge--the point of the game is to fight). Everyone knows that. Those fighters get all the ladies....
From my own tests I found that forging at 75% got about the same amount of rewards as fighting at around 80% challenge bonus. Granted this was with a MH but this was also before the 20% drop in rewards for fighting to allow for drops which makes up for maybe 4% of the drop in rewards.
January 27 2010 7:24 PM EST
Yeah my study was done before the decrease in rewards as well.
Another point that I want answered:
If forging was never meant to be a part of the game, why doesn't it have its own set of BA, or why does it use BA at all? Tournaments ARE a part of the game, even that has its own set of BA...
Forging is a part of the game, give it boosts as much as fighting gets boosts. And preferably an econ clan bonus that actually does something.
People have been wanting Forging changed for the better part of X years, don't bang your head on the wall too long...
January 27 2010 10:00 PM EST
yup, what he said ,don't hurt yerselves thinking bout dat forgin stuff so much...
the forge fee in CB1 was a result of "one" needing a CB dollar dump
the transfer fee of items and characters is a direct result of TEAM forging and more CB dollar dump...
forging has been in reverse for some years now and as you see most of the changes have hindered forging not encouraged it...
So ya forge what ya can forge and be happy that ye can forge at all
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