Bug (Major): VB and ES aren't really vorpal [fixed] (in Changelog)

Seems off to me, but I don't pretend to be a math guru. So I'll let you guys decide / figure it out.

Using Weapon: A Vorpal Blade [67x6076] (+147) 92,768,072

Against FTW's Minion "Alive"
Armor: 390
Omg! cast Steel Skin on all friendly Minions (354120) (SS = 100% effectiveness would be SS @ 500,000. (4m HP/8))
Wall of Denial grazed Alive [96855]
Wall of Denial grazed Alive [91311]
Wall of Denial scratched Alive [89092]
Wall of Denial grazed Alive [54213]
Wall of Denial grazed Alive [108953]
Wall of Denial sliced into Alive [75276]
Wall of Denial gashed Alive [70062]
Wall of Denial carved into Alive [65228]
Wall of Denial scratched Alive [62622]
Wall of Denial scratched Alive [101399]

Average damage with 10 hits: 81,501


Wall of Denial scratched Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [250580]
Wall of Denial scratched Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [286758]
Wall of Denial grazed Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [318819]
Wall of Denial clove Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [271590]
Wall of Denial sliced into Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [223185]
Wall of Denial's vorpal blade went snicker-snack! [317928]
Wall of Denial's vorpal blade went snicker-snack! [206040]
Wall of Denial's vorpal blade went snicker-snack! [251041]
Wall of Denial scratched Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [211955]
Wall of Denial scratched Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [213579]

Average damage with 10 hits: 255,147

Even if SS was at 100% effect (+ .21% reduction for each point of AC) the damage seems far too low. "Melkor" is Shade's EF with a total AC of:

Summary:
Against FTW:
Total effective AC: 390/2=195
Reduction: 40.95% (This is calculating SS @ 100% (which it is not))
Average Damage: 81,501

Against Valaquenta:
Total effective AC: 0
Reduction: 0%
Average Damage: 255,147

So you can assume that against a Target with zero AC like Valaquenta (no reduction) that the weapon is doing about 255,000 average damage.

Against FTW, (reduction of 41% (Which is really too high, the real reduction would be somewhere between 35-40% but I'm too lazy to figure out the SS math and I don't understand the SS formula to it's full extent)) the weapon is doing 81,000 average damage.

If 255,000 is the normal damage, adding a reduction of 41%, it should still be doing around 150,000 damage a hit, which as you can see is almost double of what it's currently doing against FTW. (A 41% reduction (104,550) off of the 255k).

Thoughts?

If 10 hits isn't enough for a real average, I'll gladly make it 100, but it will take me some time to record.

Alternatively Using: A Mace of Disruption [75x2897] (+40) 26,069,685

A MoD is subject to 65% reduction from his 390 AC. (390x.167) plus his SS, so somewhere between 65% and 82%

A VB is subject to only 32% reduction from his 195 AC. (195x.167) plus his SS, so somewhere between 32.5% and 41%.

Are we seeing that reflected in actual damage?? An average damage of 61,802 against Alive, compared to an average damage of 396,317 against the EF... An 80% reduction against the damage done to the zero ac EF is 79,264. Which is almost 35% more damage than the MoD is currently doing against Alive, which leads me to believe something is off here.

Wall of Denial bruised Alive [67028]
Wall of Denial bruised Alive [71251]
Wall of Denial bruised Alive [83564]
Wall of Denial bruised Alive [59509]
Wall of Denial bruised Alive [66352]
Wall of Denial bruised Alive [54671]
Wall of Denial tapped Alive [51045]
Wall of Denial tapped Alive [55500]
Wall of Denial tapped Alive [57144]
Wall of Denial bruised Alive [51959]
Average Damage: 61,802

Wall of Denial bruised Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [394025]
Wall of Denial tapped Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [388377]
Wall of Denial bruised Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [419190]
Wall of Denial bruised Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [346788]
Wall of Denial bruised Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [513354]
Wall of Denial tapped Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [343719]
Wall of Denial bruised Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [323538]
Wall of Denial pounded Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [382715]
Wall of Denial tapped Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [516011]
Wall of Denial tapped Melkor 'Master of the Fates' [335457]
Average Damage: 396,317

Either way, The Vorpal blade is a joke.

wouldn't steel skin just make 390 *1.25?

I'm not sure I see the problem here. Can you filter this one through Natasha first?

I just ran the numbers, seems to be working as intended, if Jir wants I can posts the calculations in a bit.

396k * 18% (390 armor + SS max) = 71k damage

Roughly correct, yes i left off the base reduction for simplicity.

255k * 60% (195 armor + SS max) = 153k damage

Not even close.

Steel skin claims that it makes the armor you have 25% more effective, meaning instead of reducing damage by .167% per point, it will reduce damage by .21% per point.

For the MoD the armor should be 390*.21 = 82% reduction.
For the Vorpal the armor should be 195 * .21 = 40% reduction.

Something with Vorpal blade or Steel skin is broken.

390*.21 = 82%

82/2 = 41%

255*.41= 150k

255*.18 = 46k

There is not enough evidence from that to prove it's not working.

46k<82k<150k ; Don't forget damage is random.

396k*.18 = 71.3k

That's pretty dang close. So, that leaves only the VB, and I'd have to see some more conclusive repeating results before I believe it's not just a rough RNG.

Sorry, that one line should read 255k*.59=...

Also, let's not forget 80k is almost double what we'd expect from full AC. So, like I said more evidence needed.

That's why I concluded the problem is with Steel Skin or the VB, or at the very least thier interaction, not armor itself.

If we could get some data of VB vs non SS targets it might help narrow it down.

I'm saying there isn't necessarily a problem damage gets multiplied times a RNG, from .5 to 2 I believe. So, without extensive testing there's no need to throw the red flag, if jir wants to test the vorpal blade to prove it go ahead.

The random range means nothing if both are subject to it. I've said this before.... collect enough data and the random range becomes nothing

I agree, 10 hit's is not enough data.

Looks like you were right... Renamed title, moved to changelog, fixing...

Thanks to the help of Natasha, this is now fixed.

Neither the VB nor the ES were ever actually reducing AC at all.

Thanks for not giving up on it. It's all very fixed now.

In retrospect, this is actually a hugely significant changelog. Everyone thinks the VB is trash........

so they never worked since their inception?

Even I had given up hope on it... I no longer call it the best though thanks to AC being less popular than it once was and the MoD hammering it's way into the mix... But yay for not being paperweights anymore! :D

I think it broke when the ES went in. The particular piece of code that set the vorpalness bit was actually triggering a server error, but that error was caught and discarded. I just rewrote that section, and verified that AC is cut in half by actually dumping out the numbers (actually, I dumped them to chatmails getting sent to Natasha.. :)

Holy crap. I'm glad someone noticed.

great catch then! ; )

For the record, since the vorpalness of the weapons was never active, this means it wasn't cutting through Endurance, either. Both the endurance mod and the AC mod work.

That explains my old weapon damage results that showed VB and ES to be utter trash in comparison to slightly higher base-damage weapons...I kind of wonder now how those same tests would fare.

VB still does 70% the damage of the ELS on 0AC and End.

If VB does 70% of the damage of ELS then it out-damages the ELS when you face over 325 AC. This means VB is better against most walls and any team that uses ToE even if the number of teams using ToE is very small.

260 AC with SS.

Damn I just got a nerf, even if it is putting things how they should be.

:)

220AC with SS.

220*.21 = 46.2% reduction or 53.8% damage

110*.21 = 23.1% reduction or 76.9%

76.9%*.7= 53.83%

You can figure out what it is without SS, I don't feel like it right now.

O_O

Oh my.

So...You can kill me now?

Awesome possum!

275 with no SS, if anyone is truly *that* lazy.

Awesome!

I'm really glad this got taken care of, I *KNEW* it wasn't working as intended lol.

Good work NS!

Yes.