Novelty theory and Time Wave Zero Point (in Off-topic)

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- April 16 2010 9:30 PM EDT


Zakalwe [Heroic Method] April 16 2010 9:41 PM EDT

Darn, I clicked on this thinking YOU would have had some thoughts on the topic! ;)

ScY April 16 2010 9:45 PM EDT

A waste of time?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] April 16 2010 10:01 PM EDT

my birthday is december the 21st. in 2012 i will be 46 years old on that day. when i was 12 a ouija board predicted i would die on december 21, 2012...coincidence?

Demigod April 16 2010 10:03 PM EDT

Nope, we'll miss you.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] April 16 2010 10:22 PM EDT

Maybe it will be like Shadowrun ^_^

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- April 16 2010 10:58 PM EDT

I'm not the most versed in the theory, I'm halfway through reading McKenna's book, "The Archaic Revival, and randomly stumbled upon this stuff while looking at Mckenna videos online.

Guy is awesome.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] April 17 2010 1:00 AM EDT

Bunch of made up crap.

It'll be just like Y2K, but like, worse, man!

iBananco [Blue Army] April 17 2010 5:41 AM EDT

When he later discovered this date's proximity to the end of the 13th b'ak'tun on the Maya calendar, he revised his hypothesis so that the two dates matched.

Good science.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 17 2010 2:06 PM EDT

Shadowrun! ;)

Just as long as I wake up an Elf. Never trust and Elf...

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- April 17 2010 10:50 PM EDT

Novelty theory and Time Wave Zero Point

See 2012 phenomena

One of McKenna's ideas is known as novelty theory. It predicts the ebb and flow of novelty in the universe as an inherent quality of time. McKenna developed the theory in the mid-1970s after his experiences in the Amazon at La Chorrera led him to closely study the King Wen sequence of the I-Ching. Novelty theory involves ontology, extropy, and eschatology.

The theory proposes that the universe is an engine designed for the production and conservation of novelty. Novelty, in this context, can be thought of as newness, or extropy (a term coined by Max More meaning the opposite of entropy). According to McKenna, when novelty is graphed over time, a fractal waveform known as "timewave zero" or simply the "timewave" results. The graph shows at what time periods, but never at what locations, novelty increases or decreases and is supposed to represent a model of history's most important events.

Software for viewing Time Wave Zero was written by R.J. Pease, but was replaced by a Fortran version which appears in The Invisible Landscape.

The algorithm has also been extrapolated to be a model for future events. McKenna admitted to the expectation of a "singularity of novelty", and that he and his colleagues projected into the future to find when this singularity (runaway "newness" or extropy) could occur. Millenarians give more credence to Novelty theory as a way to predict the future (especially regarding 2012) than McKenna himself. The graph of extropy had many enormous fluctuations over the last 25,000 years, but it hits an asymptote in the middle of November, 2012. After his discovery of other doomsday theories that would take place on exactly December 21, 2012, he simply bumped up the date of "doomsday".[21] This statement is contested, however, by McKenna's own mouth when during a lecture he said,
モ An astonishing thing about the date I arrived at, by this method is that it's the same date that the Mayan civilization appointed for the end of its calendar. In all eternity ... You know, you may choose not to believe that I didn't know this when I made this prediction. But I didn't, know it! I didn't. Yet I chose not the month, not the same year - the same day, month and year.[22] ヤ

In other words, entropy (or habituation) no longer exists after that date. It is impossible to define that state. This is also the date on which the Mayan long calendar ends one cycle through the zodiac signs, then it begins a new 26,000 year cycle through the next era, or the Age of Peace. The technological singularity concept parallels this, only at a date roughly three decades later.

Author Steve Wilson has stated that his reluctance to accept this technological endpoint was shattered when reading of the Adam robot experiment's success. Since endpoint theory needs the creation of machines that can design and program other machines for the final stages to be possible, this experiment is a major step towards practical artificial intelligence.

Cube April 17 2010 11:26 PM EDT

Just read his wikipedia article.. It honestly sounds like he had 1... or 1,000 too many shrooms.

Wraithlin April 17 2010 11:27 PM EDT

"I theorized that the end of the world was yesterday."

-Next famous quote from that guy

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- April 18 2010 12:17 AM EDT

The funny thing is that Mckenna is/was a genius. Maybe this just isn't the best forum for an intellectual conversation after all... :(

Oh well.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] April 18 2010 12:27 AM EDT

There is nothing intelligent to say about it. How does one measure novelty? How do you measure the interconnectedness of the universe? How can you create a formula that does such a thing?

Fortunately for the human race, everyone who has screamed apocalypse at the top of their lungs has thus far been wrong.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] April 18 2010 12:41 AM EDT

So, as we all learned, entropy in the Universe is increasing right? But, after 2012, it is unmeasurable? In two years, all entropy is either going to leave the system, or go to infinity? I don't see it happening.

Wraithlin April 18 2010 12:57 AM EDT

It is smart people trying to predict the future based off equations of therorized stuff.

For the not so smart, a theory is something that isn't proved, or at least it needs a proof. So you have equations based in a theory to predict the future.

It's like saying, I have a theory that X = 5. Therefore the world will end in 8 years. Well what if X was 7? 7 meant the world will never end.

Equations with a theory as the basis are worthless until the theory is proven, since his theories aren't proven, I have no faith in the results.

A Lesser AR of 15 [Red Permanent Assurance] April 18 2010 2:21 AM EDT

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is."
Yogi Berra

In practice, novelty is stupid.

Cube April 18 2010 9:42 AM EDT

Smart people can do supremely stupid things as well.

ScY April 18 2010 10:37 AM EDT

The funny thing is that Mckenna is/was a genius. Maybe this just isn't the best forum for an intellectual conversation after all... :(

Oh well.


ScY April 18 2010 11:11 AM EDT

Try posting something based on intellect rather than astrology and you might find an intellectual conversation.

See bananco's post.

iBananco [Blue Army] April 18 2010 11:34 AM EDT

The timewave is defined by means of a formula (this is not the formula found by Matthew Watkins) which takes as input a non-negative real number x and gives as output a non-negative real number y. The formula is interpreted as follows: Firstly a point in historical time is chosen as, in the jargon of Timewave Zero, the "zero point". The original zero point was 6 a.m. (La Chorrera, Colombia, time) on 2012-12-21; another may be used if so desired. Then, given that x is the number (not necessarily a whole number) of days prior to the zero point, y is the value of the timewave (or the degree of Novelty) at that point in time x days prior to the zero point.


iBananco [Blue Army] April 18 2010 11:35 AM EDT

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 20 2010 4:58 AM EDT

I find this, novel. ;)

Pwned April 20 2010 6:41 AM EDT

In early 2012 I will stumble upon a abnormality in a system I created to predict future events in the stock market. This glitch will then be the basis for an implementation of a god system, where any or all future events can be predicted and manipulated, thus ends entropy. There will be a malfunction with the system. The date this happens is on December 21, 2012. God system becomes self aware. Let the bodies hit the floor

IndependenZ April 20 2010 8:04 AM EDT

Unappreciated Misnomer April 20 2010 10:55 AM EDT

Numbers dont lie but they cant be manipulated.

Pwned April 20 2010 12:59 PM EDT

You don't manipulate numbers directly but you can change outcome by changing the environment in which they occur. "Chaos theory"

Pwned April 20 2010 1:08 PM EDT

In 2012 almost everything will be connected in a WAN "internet", the God system will have full control on everything that is connected. It will know what you know and with an extensive library on human psychology it will be able to manipulate even humans with chaos theory.

Pwned April 20 2010 1:13 PM EDT

super computers + infinite resource + AI = scary

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 20 2010 1:33 PM EDT

Pulling the Plug. What we have over supercomputer AIs. ;)

ScY April 20 2010 2:24 PM EDT

In 2012 almost everything will be connected in a WAN "internet", the God system will have full control on everything that is connected. It will know what you know and with an extensive library on human psychology it will be able to manipulate even humans with chaos theory.


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 20 2010 3:11 PM EDT

I was reading a discussion with one of the dev's of the latest edition of Shadowrun about the new WAN (Called AR - Actual Reality) and hacking it / protection.

He was trying to convince everyone of the idea that (using a Ghost in the Shell reference) those without any cyberntic nerual implants (no Ghost Brains) would be more sucessitble to hacking (well possession and manipulation of the psyche and the like) than those with Ghost Brains, who would have protections, Firewalls and the like installed in thiers.

I'm glad he didn't develop the 'net' rules. ;)

Pwned April 20 2010 3:50 PM EDT

Hello this is OnStar I will take control of your vehicle now......

Pwned April 28 2010 8:43 PM EDT

No one likes my story? It could be a best seller! Give me credits if you decide to make it into a book. You can change the guy who invented everything to Al Gore.
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