A Tangent from 'NCB the broken System' (in General)


horseguy001 October 22 2010 4:41 PM EDT

I wouldn't feel right steering the other thread off course so I am going to start a new one on something related to this whole topic.

Here are some of my thoughts. CB is a strange RPG in 2 ways:

1. If you are behind you can not simply spend a few hours 'grinding' to make up for lost exp. You are just simply behind. If you want to catch up you need to start a bonus character and then wait a least 1 1/2 years. That is your only option. Everyone is generally slogging forward at roughly the same pace (yes yes I know there a few exceptions to this rule, please don't beat that dead horse).

2. The higher you level, the less work you have to do. This one is even stranger. I always thought 6/20 should be at the bottom and 10/20 at the top. It is strange to further punish those at the bottom by making them do MORE work to level up then those at the top. The 6/20 group does the least amount of work in terms of gameplay.

The notion of letting some one get near the top mpr in seen as bad for the game. I need to know why. I can not see in any way how it would hurt the game to allow as many people as possible a chance to get a high mpr character.

Vets would still retain advantages through experience and NW. A whole new metagame would flourish.

Why is a lot of high mpr characters bad for the game?

QBOddBird October 22 2010 4:44 PM EDT

2. The higher you level, the less work you have to do. This one is even stranger. I always thought 6/20 should be at the bottom and 10/20 at the top. It is strange to further punish those at the bottom by making them do MORE work to level up then those at the top. The 6/20 group does the least amount of work in terms of gameplay.

The notion seems to have been "rewarded for reaching the top." I agree with you, though; there should be more effort put in to maintain that upper status.

horseguy001 October 22 2010 4:49 PM EDT

There is no level cap though (a good thing). The 'top' is ever growing, with no ceiling.

QBOddBird October 22 2010 4:58 PM EDT

Right, I mean that region.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 22 2010 5:03 PM EDT

The notion of letting some one get near the top mpr in seen as bad for the game. I need to know why. I can not see in any way how it would hurt the game to allow as many people as possible a chance to get a high mpr character.

The notion of letting someone get near the top MPR is not seen as a bad thing. I think it would be a very good thing. It is the notion of putting someone in the top ranks that I think is a bad thing.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] October 22 2010 5:09 PM EDT

Yeah, I never understood the 6/20 for the top and I think it is probably one of the reasons I constantly make NCBs. It is kinda lame to sleep 8+ hours wake up and log onto CB only to find that your still not at full BA.

However, at the same time I do think you should start out as 6/20 because new people will want to fight more. I remember when I first started playing the game didn't seem to give me enough BA and this was during the 10/10. Maybe something where it starts to 10/20 and then works down to 6/20 and then back up to 10/20.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 22 2010 5:10 PM EDT

Or you can just pick your BA regen rate and get a corresponding bonus on the more difficult regen rates.

horseguy001 October 22 2010 5:21 PM EDT

I can't for the life of me find the change log where we can do blue box quotes in html. Can some one please CM it over for me? Thanks in advance.

"The notion of letting someone get near the top MPR is not seen as a bad thing. I think it would be a very good thing. It is the notion of putting someone in the top ranks that I think is a bad thing."

I think we are batting the ball back and forth in the same court here. Some one would still have to spend more BA then the 6/20 does to get up to the 'top'. Out of every body playing CB right now, the 6/20 group has the least amount of BA to burn.

Demigod October 22 2010 5:29 PM EDT

Can some one please CM it over for me?
Done

horseguy001 October 22 2010 5:31 PM EDT

> Done

Testing out. Thanks again.

horseguy001 October 22 2010 5:34 PM EDT

quote

Ok I got it now I think XD

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] October 22 2010 5:41 PM EDT

Yeah I would have to agree that picking your BA regeneration rate would probably be best.

horseguy001 October 22 2010 5:58 PM EDT

I think the BA regen rate is a fantastic idea.

However, is it still possible for some one at the top to set it for maximum rewards and really run away with it? Though that would still be better, since in that case they would be working harder.

It would be optimal if there was a BA burn option that was available to everyone but 6/20 (with higher rewards). That way some one could truly grind there way up in the old fashioned RPG sense.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] October 22 2010 6:02 PM EDT

Problem is, most of the people at the top are constantly grinding away too. In all honesty, most of the people in the top 20, are working harder than everyone else. (Take note of the word "most") They don't miss BA, they burn BA Sunday before 2 am, they work hard in there clans. Why if they are working harder at the top, should people "grinding" at the bottom gain on them?

QBOddBird October 22 2010 6:07 PM EDT

Problem is, most of the people at the top are constantly grinding away too. In all honesty, most of the people in the top 20, are working harder than everyone else. (Take note of the word "most") They don't miss BA, they burn BA Sunday before 2 am, they work hard in there clans. Why if they are working harder at the top, should people "grinding" at the bottom gain on them?

I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from.

BA at the top is regenerated entirely in 9 hours.

BA below that marker is regenerated entirely in 5 - 7.5 hours.

If both are grinding their BA, then how can those at the top POSSIBLY be working harder? It literally isn't possible for them to "grind harder" when they are receiving less total BA to be spent over a longer stretch of time.

I can only assume that you are insinuating that nobody but the top players do what you mentioned - work hard for their clans, hit all their BA - and that's a rather dangerous line to tread.

horseguy001 October 22 2010 6:12 PM EDT

Problem is, most of the people at the top are constantly grinding away too. In all honesty, most of the people in the top 20, are working harder than everyone else.

Not true.

10/20 has 720 BA to burn every day plus 240 to buy. (960 Total)
6/20 has 432 BA to burn every day plus 144 to buy. (576 Total)

You can't possibly work harder then the BA you burn. In essence some one just starting out has to burn %40 MORE BA then some one at the top for the same rewards. Add in that target hunting for 6/20 is much much much much easier then 10/20 and I don't see the connection between them actually 'working harder' then those in lower regen rates.

Please though this isn't meant as a shot at the 6/20 group. They have worked hard to get up there, no question! But at this very moment they are doing much less then the lower regen rates.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 22 2010 6:18 PM EDT

And this is why I think that you should be able to choose your BA regeneration rate. If you choose to do 10 BA then you get a small bonus for your trouble. This means that the higher you get the more likely you will need to be in the higher regeneration rates to keep up. The very top will become much harder to hold as they might be force to run at 10 BA all the time in order to hold their spot and that is not an easy feat.

horseguy001 October 22 2010 6:27 PM EDT

Yes and that is a great idea.

I would like to see a regen option that in only available to those lower then 6/20 with greater rewards. That way in true rpg sense if you decide to be a CB zombie for a couple of weeks/a month/a year you could really catch up (to 6/20) through grinding it out.

The BA regen is really the win win idea, the only other thing to worry about would be a permanent solution to the N*B. Eventually the bonus will last 8 months, then a year, then 2 years, etc. But that is a whole other thread entirely ^^

QBOddBird October 22 2010 7:17 PM EDT

If the XP portion is already corrected by the BA regen plan, I don't see a reason to alter the NUB $$$wise. There would be no need to lengthen it, whereas the XP side of the NUB causes problems.

horseguy001 October 22 2010 7:22 PM EDT

I think the plan is designed for the 6/20 folk if I understand it correctly. Getting to 6/20 is a whole other problem that relies on some form of bonus. I was advocating that on top of that bonus those not in 6/20 would have an additional option that grants them a higher bonus then some one is 6/20 is able to get, so they could further catch up.

QBOddBird October 22 2010 7:25 PM EDT

Nat: I assume you wouldn't be able to change your regen rate unless your BA count was at 0. And we'd be removing buyable BA, right?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 22 2010 7:30 PM EDT

I made a comprehensive thread about it before a few times but no and no. All you need to do is put the option to set it in the setting page. However the the BA regeneration rate only changes at cache flush. At that time it switches to whatever rate it is currently set to.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] October 23 2010 12:59 AM EDT

%40 MORE BA

First off bad math ^, Secondly ...

10/20 has 720 BA to burn every day plus 240 to buy.(960 Total)
6/20 has 432 BA to burn every day plus 144 to buy. (576 Total)

You're in 10/20 for two days. 9/20 for a month. By 8/20 you're at 576 a day, buying 192. Total of 768. Only 33% more. At this point, I'm assuming you're running a NCB, if you want to bring up the disposable chars problem, take me to a different thread. You're looking at another month and a half at 8/20... damn... lots of hard work. The people at the top who have been there from the beginning (Poison..), you know how long they've been grinding away at BA, hell of a lot longer than 3 months...

The expected handouts in this game are very sickening to me. Why some people complain about a system that easily allows them catch up to 80% of an opponent's size, while he's been working longer and harder, I'll never know. Does the system need changed? Maybe... but, it for sure isn't for the reasons your stating. Any changes should be made to retain fresh new users, not to retain the bitter few old ones who keep refusing to try something new, or make things work. The NCB is like a gift from the gods ( Jon ); it is a very easy thing to do. Does it take a lot of effort? Hell ya! For what, six months? Whoopty freaking doo! You think these numbers would mean something:

Member since January 1, 2005
MPR 6,212,209

But, their value is diminished daily by a system that requires joke-able effort to catch up. Now you want a system that puts everyone on equal playing fields *regardless* of work. If a RB is put in place with over 30% bonus people could easily catch up to those at the top without even buying BA. Spending less time, less effort and less money than those you are saying "don't work as hard." I just implore you, think about what you say before you say it. Saying that those at the top didn't work hard no only disgusts me, it offends me, and I'm not even at the top...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 23 2010 2:52 AM EDT

And this is why I think that you should be able to choose your BA regeneration rate. If you choose to do 10 BA then you get a small bonus for your trouble. This means that the higher you get the more likely you will need to be in the higher regeneration rates to keep up. The very top will become much harder to hold as they might be force to run at 10 BA all the time in order to hold their spot and that is not an easy feat.

Without a doubt.

It's exactly the same answer as the one I gave to allowing more playable teams with thier own BA regen. You would have to run 10/20 (or whichever gave the most overall rewards), as everyone else would be, and you need to squeeze out all possible rewards, and try to equal if not surpasse the bonuses everyone else is getting.

There would be no choice (unless the regen rates each gave exactly the same potential rewards as each other, in which case everyone would then use the easiest...), and I still don't see how everyone running 10/20 would enable anyone to catch up. The prospect of dropping more BA isn't enogh, as you can burn all daily BA at 10/20. So everyone who could anyway, would.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 23 2010 2:55 AM EDT

You might be able to burn all your ba at 10 BA regen for a few days, but for an indefinite amount of time that is a VERY extreme feat. And as soon as you start missing ba you won't be getting as much rewards as if you were at a lower regeneration rate but burning all of your ba.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 23 2010 2:59 AM EDT

But the same will hold for everyone, and if 10/20 gives increased rewards, that might cover the lost BA everyone will face to make it more profitable than running at 6/20.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 23 2010 2:59 AM EDT

Or you run 10/20 for as long as you can hit max BA, then switch to 6/20 to get some sleep, and rinse/repeat.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 23 2010 3:04 AM EDT

That would still be far more demanding to stay at the top than it would be currently would it not. And also, say the difference was 3% bonus per BA regen this would mean 10 BA has a 12% bonus over 6 ba regen. If you miss just 3 hours of 10 BA regen you will be getting less exp than burning all ba at 6 regen. If you just happen to sleep in for that 8 hours you will be getting less exp and this is assuming you burn everything all day.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 23 2010 3:16 AM EDT

But you'll switch to 6/20 when you want to lay in, and when you can stya up you'll run 10/20.

You'll also run 10/20 for the whole of wacky XP time, to the excluse of everything else.

horseguy001 October 23 2010 9:07 AM EDT

No offense Titan, but I am not bitter nor looking for handouts.

I think a system where the majority of players are high up in mpr is good for new players, not just good for me. If you notice I am doing a NCB (not refusing to try new things), and I don't really care where it ends up since competitive play is something I don't have time for these days on CB.

The expected handouts in this game are very sickening to me.

I'm sorry you read it that way, and it affects your health so adversely :)

For a NUB to hit 6/20 is, IMO, impressive considering the brutal tutorial, complex nature of the game, and lack of graphics. Considering how few new users we get that actually make it past their first set of BA.

CB can't continue this way forever...it won't last. We can't just keep extending the length of the bonus as a band aid solution.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] October 23 2010 1:31 PM EDT

I think a system where the majority of players are high up in mpr is good for new players, not just good for me.

Proof please.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 23 2010 1:36 PM EDT

"I think" does usually imply an opinion. ; )

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] October 23 2010 1:38 PM EDT

Yeah, but usually opinions with no evidence are laughed at right?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 23 2010 1:40 PM EDT

not unless they are stated as fact, at least in my book!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 23 2010 1:51 PM EDT

nat, i really hate any system that has the potential to reward those less honest than others. the temptation to get ahead might possibly encourage people to have others play for them. with all of the devices that cb can be played on these days i would imagine that policing that sort of behavior has become more difficult.

todd / spydah did it legally in cb so i think there is some proof that two people playing an account are better than one and can get ahead in that type of system.

horseguy001 October 23 2010 5:13 PM EDT

Yeah, but usually opinions with no evidence are laughed at right?

Proof please. It's good to see people can still laugh at themselves though :)

There are 5573 unretired characters in the 10/20 range. Thats just about half of all the non-retired characters. I didn't bother to figure out the 6/20 range but I'm going to pin it high around 5%. Even though this is still my opinion, I think it's safe to say that 5% of the game burns less BA then the other 95%.

Again not proof, but to anyone who is familiar with Netbattle before it got shut down, that was some of the best Online Pokemon gaming in existance. The best part was everyone's pokemon were all the same level, the game was purely about strategy. I think CB could benefit from more people at the top to expand on the metagame.
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