Tattoo growth (in Changelog)

[EG] Almuric January 5 2005 1:00 PM EST

I just fought a few battles and earned 1508 xp with my single tank. I used all this EXP to upgrade my DX from 5515 to 5681, a gain of 167.

Before training, my ToJ's familiar had stats of 6031. After training, its stats are 6193, a gain of 162. It's training 6 stats equally and gaining almost as much in each one that I do in a single stat!?

Can that be right? If it is, I have two words: That's stupid.

I've been training DX exclusively on my tank in the forlorn hope that I could get it high enough to at least be able to hit enemy familiars. Obviously, that's not going to happen. Best I can hope for is to stay even... in ONE stat. It's training 6! (Right? HP/DX/ST/Evasion/UC/Endurance?) Does this make sense to anyone?

I'm hoping this is a bug in the code. The curve can't be this shallow at the start. Jon, please tell me that's so. Pretty please?

AdminJonathan January 5 2005 1:07 PM EST

none of the TJK's stats have more than half of the level, and most have a good bit less.

level is displayed the way it is so you can make comparisons of xp earned by the tattoo across tattoo types.

QBsutekh137 January 5 2005 1:07 PM EST

i wonder too when the toj will become less of factor, especlly with the swapping stuff. right now char with big win streak has that big tattoo from avoid.

any time i mention, everyone says stop thinking so short time, but i would like to know when we reach long term??? :)

fyi, i had my tattoo almost since start, and it's stats are keeping with my PR so far, maybe even gaining some. pr is around 15k, stats are all nearly 18k. gap was smaller yesterday.

[EG] Almuric January 5 2005 1:20 PM EST

I'm not sure I understand, Jon. My Tattoo's level is 2520. The stats on the fights results page are what I'm talking about. All 3 displayed stats - HP, DX, and ST - went from 6031 to 6193 after I trained 1508 EXP on my char. I assume that the 3 unlisted stats went up an equal amount.

If I understand what you're saying, my Tattoo's stats should be around 1250 or less. That makes sense, but it's not what I'm seeing, both in the fight results table and in the fact that I'm unable to hit enemy familiars even though I have one of the top 5 DX's in the game.

AdminJonathan January 5 2005 1:38 PM EST

Oh my. I'm not sure how I missed that. Fixed.

velo January 5 2005 1:46 PM EST

that should help me not get farmed so much when I'm not wearing mine... finally ToJ is not insanely overpowered.

velo January 5 2005 1:49 PM EST

by the way, jon, does this mean we have a shot of having tattoo loaning fees reduced?

[EG] Almuric January 5 2005 1:50 PM EST

Thank you, Jon!

Nightmare [NewNightmares] January 5 2005 1:52 PM EST

Did you adjust all the tats? it seems the ToA I was using gave me around 3k more STR/DEX earlier than it does now

AdminJonathan January 5 2005 1:56 PM EST

yes, all tattoos.

Todd January 5 2005 2:00 PM EST

So, maybe Jon doesn't read all the posts in general. People have been saying the familiar is way overpowered, and grows much faster than single tanks for days now :)

THIS makes much more sense.

ToJ sales must have tapered off, this change is now safe :)

/me sees why he is not admin :)

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] January 5 2005 2:02 PM EST

Wow Tattoo went from kicking but to kicking air, might almost be feasible to have a tattoo per minion with that nerf. ;)

SNK3R January 5 2005 2:04 PM EST

that should help me not get farmed so much when I'm not wearing mine...

Not any more, Bubba. You're number one on my list for now on.

[EG] Almuric January 5 2005 2:05 PM EST

Jon is a numbers guy, Todd. Whining alone isn't going to do it. You've got to back up your whine with a little subtraction and division. Extra points for throwing in a square root or maybe even an integral or two. :p

AdminShade January 5 2005 2:14 PM EST

Thanks Jonathan.

now the tattoos are an addition instead of a requirement to win. now they CAN be put in for a bit more strategy instead of just mindless putting one on and fight the smurfs out of the top 10

Todd January 5 2005 2:29 PM EST

Almuric: I swear.. I used words like "more than double" :)
Not.. "it's overpowered".

Heck Jon has one.. I'm sure he saw the difference between it's level and the stats it had.

Either way, it's a good change.

Becoming January 5 2005 2:51 PM EST

I was about to put together a post about levels and stats, showing how stats = lvl *3 or thereabouts. I'm glad the bug was fixed! :)

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] January 5 2005 4:31 PM EST

Well here's my 2 cents:

I'm a Tattoo owner and have enjoyed it's ridiculous power until now. But there have been many Tattoo owners that have had a significant advantage in leveling up and gaining experience from the overpowered item. There has been a significant disadvantage to non-tattoo owners/users.

Maybe Jon should roll back everything so that everyone starts out on the same level. This was not a minor faux pas. This was a biggy. Anyway, I'll leave it at that to see what others think.

QBsutekh137 January 5 2005 4:40 PM EST

barron, i think we can look forward to long term now :) game has only been around for five days so no worries about some peoples leads, eh?

thefuji January 5 2005 5:47 PM EST

To my understanding, tatoos just got totally nerfed? Because mine lost 5k ST, DX, and Health.

AdminJonathan January 5 2005 5:59 PM EST

Yes, your tattoo lost the stats it wasn't supposed to have had to being with. Bit slow today?

Salketer [big bucks] January 5 2005 6:09 PM EST

Jonathan, will the transfer fee for tattoo's be revised? there is a lot less players wanting to pay to level, or loan or anything since the new stats appeared...

AdminJonathan January 5 2005 6:12 PM EST

I think the transfer fees are fine as they stand. :)

[FireBreathing]Chicken January 5 2005 6:23 PM EST

Shame, all the supporters already have a huge pr lead on everybody else. Won't be easy catching up.

Agent Tsing Chiong January 5 2005 6:25 PM EST

i like the idea of being able to use 1 tat per minion :) since they are alot weaker now there shouldn't be too much problem with it.

AdminJonathan January 5 2005 6:25 PM EST

oh yeah, 5 days is such a huuuuge lead...

Salketer [big bucks] January 5 2005 6:25 PM EST

haha alright, one last question about tattoo's...

The ToJ "trains" the xp gained in 6 stats (or so, i don't know exactly)

The ToA "trains" 2 stats, if we can say it that way. Are the gains respective?

I explain my self... in 600 xp the ToJ gains 100 of each stats while the ToA gains 300 each?

Salketer [big bucks] January 5 2005 6:28 PM EST

tsing, you have to remember that Jon had put the max of 1 tattoo equiped per minion BEFORE the grow bug was noticed!

[FireBreathing]Chicken January 5 2005 6:29 PM EST

well, 5 out of 5 days seemed pretty long to me.

[FireBreathing]Chicken January 5 2005 6:32 PM EST

Its alrite for me though, I borrowed a level 9k tattoo for 2 days and already have a 8,375 pr 1 minion character. And a 2k pr 4 minion farm(retired).

Agent Tsing Chiong January 5 2005 6:36 PM EST

lol i still like the idea =P
but isuppose it is better this way they were really overpowered lol

[FireBreathing]Chicken January 5 2005 6:46 PM EST

'tattoo almost since start, and it's stats are keeping with my PR so far, maybe even gaining some. pr is around 15k, stats'

Not exactly sure what Jon changed on the ToJ, but for those of you whiny people, even if it's stats were cut in half, you're still gaining 50% more 'exp.'

Salketer [big bucks] January 5 2005 9:13 PM EST

chicken, the tattoo was training lets say if you gained 10xp, he trained 10xp into EACH stats instead of 10 spent equaly in the stats...

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] January 5 2005 11:06 PM EST

I still think it's overpowered.

I'm not trying to get it nerfed until it's useless, I quite like what it is now but the simple fact that you can equip a big one on a tiny char and beat people twice your PR with ease without them having a chance at countering it because it alone is higher than their PR is at least in my opinion overpowered.

No weapon is unbeatable on a small character, except the ToJ. You put 10 billion NW into any other weapon and it can still be beaten through EC and on a small character, it does that quite easily. It can also be beaten through FB and it's spread fire which will cause draws against small characters. Nothing can beat something that's twice your PR but still only shows up as 1pr, heck the person can beat you when using the "fill every spell slot because I can" strategy on their other minions.

I don't know, maybe throw in some relation to character PR for tattoos so that they aren't so great on a small char, maybe not even do it yet but whilst I intend to use my tattoo I'd like to see them nerfed further.

Just my 2 cents.

[From CB1]Tequito January 6 2005 12:53 AM EST

/me said the same thing in a post a couple days ago...

[HaveToLook]Buffet January 6 2005 8:51 AM EST

when first starting CB1 and your at a low pr and got a MoD from becoming a supporter, couldn't you then beat players twice your PR?

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] January 6 2005 1:09 PM EST

The perk of becoming a supporter is getting an item that is overpowered relative to your pr. Otherwise what would be the point?

[pwnage]Exotion [[pWnage]] January 6 2005 1:59 PM EST

i used a tatoo for like 3 hrs and i increased my money and score by 2*

[FireBreathing]Chicken January 6 2005 9:26 PM EST

'when first starting CB1 and your at a low pr and got a MoD from becoming a supporter, couldn't you then beat players twice your PR? '

I recall SoD, MoD, GoP being rather useless at the upper PR levels. Imagine one of the top 5 from CB1, equipped with a SoD. The past supporter items all had a limit on their effectiveness. Even the much debated CoBF had a cap somewhere. Its upgrade cost increased exponentially, while its damage increased linearly.

The ToJ grows with the character indefinetly and linearly, as far as we know. It will become a vital part of any mage team, and limiting non-supporters.

I'm not asking Jon to remove this item, as I think its pretty cool myself. (I was the one who submitted tradeable minions into FORS). But, as it is an 'uber' mage piece, it should be at least available to all.

MmHm.. stick it in shops as a rare along with the other tattoos. It worked fine when DBs started being spawned in shops.

Or, if you would at least put some kind of cap on this item so it doesn't become an uber item.
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