what is the correct deffinition of RPG? (in Off-topic)

Ariac January 26 2005 6:53 PM EST

me and monarch have got into a long conversation about what makes an RPG an RPG and is san andreas a real RPG?

btw were discussing in the room other games if u wanna help us out

Majestik Moose January 26 2005 6:58 PM EST

imo. it's an RPG, if you go into character, and act as you play as another character. Most computer/TV games is mostly about fast, and precise button pushes.

AdminG Beee January 26 2005 7:03 PM EST

Uhm, I guess you don't mean Rocket Propelled Grenade then ?
Russian made rocket launcher, RPG7 and RPG9 are examples of 40mm RPGs

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 26 2005 7:18 PM EST

Tough one...

I'd probably say a game isn't a RPG if you can't control some form of your characters development.

Getting into character isn't enough.

How many people have shouted "Sho-Ryu-Ken!" when playing Street Fighter? ;P

Undertow January 26 2005 7:19 PM EST

IMHO, it's not a real RPG unless it has a cut screen for battles. If it doesn't have a FF style (or even chrono trigger style) battle engine, it's an adventure. SA, is NOT an RPG. It's much more like Zelda, which is an adventure game.

Xanthochroid January 26 2005 7:34 PM EST

Eh, battle engines and battle engines alone don't make the RPG. Are you going to say that Dungeons and Dragons games aren't RPGs? They generally don't have battle engines or cut scenes.

Usually if a game has a battle engine, it's an RPG. However, there are other factors. I agree with Gentleman Loser on character development being the deciding factor in what makes a game an RPG. If you get experience, or extra stat increases (Like in Chrono Cross) for defeating enemies, solving puzzles or completing quests, there you go.

Ariac January 26 2005 7:49 PM EST

compare SA to fable and tell me if san andreas is an RPG
stupid stupid spell check

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] January 26 2005 7:59 PM EST

It isn't a RPG unless you can steal cars, kill innocents, fly a plane/helicopter or just plain destroy buildings.

Speaking of, anyone try that new Mercenaries game? It's awfully fun :)

TheMonarch-nek January 26 2005 8:31 PM EST

Anyone that wants the convo thus far it can be found here

Mostly by me.
I have a foul mouth, sorry.
No mean things are said but I do use several bad words.

TheMonarch-nek January 26 2005 8:35 PM EST

EDIT: This is not a bump seeing as how it is on the top anyway.

The convo is a veryyyyy long read..
Probably about an hour or so of reading.

[pwnage]Exotion [[pWnage]] January 26 2005 8:59 PM EST

Role playing game
You play the role of someone or something. somewhere
You follow that person (or thing) through its adventures/ quests
you are to either follow a story or finish a story.
In other words its anygame thats real-time or savable

berethor January 26 2005 9:05 PM EST

an rpg has character devolopement and many strategys for it. R.P.G stands for ROLE playing game therefore you take the role of a character in a game. like in runescape you can customize many things you clothing color your hair color/ style.

or the third age you collect weapons and they all look different after the weapons are equipped. you fight and gain stats and as you progress your character gets stronger. The third age is the best rpg with turn based battling next to final fantasy.

[pwnage]Exotion [[pWnage]] January 26 2005 9:08 PM EST

i just said that

berethor January 26 2005 9:10 PM EST

took me a while to type that so i didn't see yours srry

TheMonarch-nek January 26 2005 10:42 PM EST

Thank you both for that..
Please read the convo me and ariac had and you'll see we went over that several times.
If an RPG were simply a game you take on the role of a person then anything could be an RPG...

Undertow January 26 2005 11:25 PM EST

That would make Zelda an RPG. You might think so, but every gaming mag, and Nintendo itself claims that it's an adventure game.

A video game and a table top RPG are two completely different things. For example, while I'm an avid player of D&D, and would call it a Role Playing Game, I would NOT call Never Winter Nights a Role Playing game, I'd call it an Adventure.

Mythology January 27 2005 6:17 AM EST

Id say the definition is if during the game you "role play" that is to say you do things because you believe that is what your character would do rather than that would get you biggest rewards.

A prime example for me is Civilisation (the first one) my dad would never enter his country into the democratic government style because he did not believe democracy was the best government for his people's happiness. Civilisation therefore in this case I believe a role play game.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 27 2005 10:18 AM EST

;) Another example, I'll use Civ for this.

You want to be the biggest, baddest, despot world ruler (TM) in the land, so you do things that will get you the biggest rewards. And damn the people you rule with an iron fist.

Are you out of character? Or not Role playing well?

TheMonarch-nek January 27 2005 4:00 PM EST

RPG aspects are now being implemented in games that wouldn't even have been near the RPG genre now..
An RPG now has no correct definition..
I would stick with what you feel is correct..
And for the record I will never consider GTA:SA to be an RPG..
It's not the same kind of feel as an old style RPG game gives and therefore it's not a true
RPG in my opinion.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 27 2005 4:41 PM EST

What feel is that? Crap graphics? Linear plots? ;P

a20sidedninja January 27 2005 4:57 PM EST

San Andreas is an Adventure based game with RPG elements, just like zelda. An RPG is typically centered around strategy (which is why most RPG's are turn based, and those that aren't still have strategy elements). There is little (or no) strategy to shooting everything with bullets, nor with hitting everything with a sword. Which is what takes GTA:SA and Zelda right out of RPG territory.
Conversely, CB is not an RPG because there is no story and no character development, and therefore there is no role to take up. It is merely a strategy game, like Tatics Ogre or FF:T.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 27 2005 5:05 PM EST

From our good friends at Dictionary.com, the definition of Role-playing Game;

"A game in which players assume the roles of characters and act out fantastical adventures, the outcomes of which are partially determined by chance, as by the roll of dice."

Chargerz-Back January 27 2005 5:12 PM EST

i would say SA is a RPG, but not one we are use to thinking of as an RPG. it can be placed in many different categories, such as action/adventure RPG, shooter, etc.

Xanthochroid January 27 2005 6:23 PM EST

To define an RPG, I think we first must define an adventure game.

From my experience, adventure games are where you portray a character who sets about doing quests and solving puzzles while fighting monsters (or sometimes not, as in the King's Quest games). More often that not, adventure games have your character collect items to help he/she advance. Zelda is certainly an adventure game, whereas Neverwinter Nights is certainly not.

TheMonarch-nek January 27 2005 10:48 PM EST

Crappy graphics just mean that they are outdated..
Soon all the games out right now will have "Crappy graphics."
Especially SA because even now I'de put it on the crappy graphics list.
It has some of the worst graphics for a newer game ever yet people that review it still give it a 10/10 because
they figure it "deserves" the full score.

And a couple RPG's I will say that where good that gave me that old style feel of a true RPG are: ( And without saying final fantasy at all)
Star Ocean
Breath of Fire
Bahamut Lagoon
Super Mario _RPG!_
Castlevania (most of em like symphony of the night, lament of innocence)
Vagrant Story
Chocobo Story
Those are what true RPG's feel like..
_NOT_ San Andreas

I'm done with this subject, my mind is perfectly made up at this point.
Thanks for the help everyone.

Ariac January 29 2005 10:31 AM EST

dude if ur gonna classify castlevania as an RPG then why don't u classify everthing as an RPG?

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] January 29 2005 10:35 AM EST

I thought RPG was a Rocket Propelled Grenade?

TheMonarch-nek January 30 2005 3:28 AM EST

Castlevania is close to being something else but if you've ever played
Symphony of the night for PSX you know what I'm talking about.

Undertow January 31 2005 5:46 AM EST

I've played SoTN, and I still think your crazy. That's an adventure game. Same with Vagrant Story. All though Vagrant story is close.

These are the things that in my mind, make up a video game RPG:

Equipable weapons and armor.

Magic system (which is why FF8 doesn't count, stupid anti-magic system)

Strategy based fighting system, with (at the very least) randomized hits and misses. These are NOT based off your ability to control your character. This is what sets things like Castlevania and Zelda.

Which leads me to, the RNG (Random number generator). RPG's have to have a heavy reliance on RNGs. This extends to pencil and paper role playing as well. They have dice, we have the RNG. If the RNG isn't filling out most the details (like I said before, whether you hit or miss. Crit chance. Chance to use some skill. Lots of stuff. But NOT "did I aim that just right".

I'll add more as I come up with it.

But this brings me to a interesting point I thought about all weekend. And that is how similar GTA:SA and Zelda are.

My name is Link, I go around the hood cappin ballers so that I can collect my Rupees and 9mm's. Then I go on missions where I collect pieces of the triforce and generally progress my story.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 31 2005 7:35 AM EST

Hmmm... How about the old Super Nintendo Entertainment System Shadow run game?

It's an RPG, based on a P&P RPG, has equipable weapons, armour, cyber ware and magic.

Yet it is a move, target and hit type of game.

RPG or not RPG?

Nightmare [NewNightmares] January 31 2005 11:12 AM EST

Shadowrun, on Genesis or SNES, is a good example of an RPG. It gives a story, has you play as the protagonist, either Joshua in the Genesis version or whatever his name is on SNES, and do missions to enable you to complete a greater objective. Magic systems do not make an RPG, neither do an endless supply of mindless acts that serve no purpose other than entertain. Its all about putting yourself in shoes you could never walk in otherwise.

Chargerz-Back February 1 2005 12:52 PM EST

it doesn't even have to be something you could never do. anything where you take the role of a person. there are so many different types of rpgs now that they have to be separated into groups. I don't care if it doesn't have that "classic rpg feel" times change and so do games.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 1 2005 1:18 PM EST

Charger. So Street fighter Is a RPG?

Every time you fight you take the role of one of the 'world fighters'.

"Hah, I ducked your Tiger. Now feel the wrath of my Dragon Puch Sagat! Sho-Ryu-Ken! That'll leave a nice scar...."

Undertow February 1 2005 2:10 PM EST

That's right, one questions that will never ever appear on Jepordy:

"Who gave the Street Fighter character "Sagat" his scar?"
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