AMf backfire damage Static? (in General)


AdminShade April 14 2005 2:20 PM EDT

Ranged Combat

Belg shot Melkor, 'Arises in Might' [3602]
Belg takes damage from his own Magic missile (5016)!
Belg Magic missile hit Melkor, 'Arises in Might' [4210]

Belg hit Melkor, 'Arises in Might' [2517]
Belg takes damage from his own Magic missile (5643)!
Belg Magic missile hit Melkor, 'Arises in Might' [4095]

Melee Combat

Belg scratched Melkor, 'Arises in Might' [1682]
Belg takes damage from his own Magic missile (6270)!
Belg Magic missile hit Melkor, 'Arises in Might' [3964]

Belg scratched Melkor, 'Arises in Might' [1414]
Belg takes damage from his own Magic missile (6270)!
Belg Magic missile hit Melkor, 'Arises in Might' [2963]
R.I.P. Splut

Belg scratched Melkor, 'Arises in Might' [1920]
Belg takes damage from his own Magic missile (6270)!
Belg Magic missile hit Melkor, 'Arises in Might' [3124]


look at the Melee round AMF backfire damage:

takes damage from his own Magic missile (6270)!

and this 3 times in a row, rounds 4 5 and 6.

but in ranged these damages are different..

another fight:

Round:

2: takes damage from his own Magic missile (5016)!
3: takes damage from his own Magic missile (5643)!

Melee Combat

4: takes damage from his own Magic missile (6270)!
5: takes damage from his own Magic missile (6270)!
6: takes damage from his own Magic missile (6270)!


I have edited the opponent characters names but the character was Belg owned by Belg

GnuUzir April 14 2005 2:23 PM EDT

If not that is an amazing coincidence...

Eternal April 14 2005 2:24 PM EDT

Same is occuring with me. Every fight I have the damage received from my opponent's AMF is static during melee rounds (as I fight with CoC).

Round 4: 10170
Round 5: 10170
Round 6: 10170
Round 7: 10170

Another opponent:

Round 1: 7345
Round 2: 7345
Round 3: 7345
Round 4: 7345
Round 5: 7345

For my opponent's it's the same. Seems that melee is being static, while ranged is varying.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 April 14 2005 2:26 PM EDT

same thing here :P cool ; )

Majestik Moose April 14 2005 2:27 PM EDT

yeah, since it works on the raw damage level, before randomness kicks in

(CB1)logan666 [Jago] April 14 2005 2:32 PM EDT

I just fought the same char 10 times and getting the same results each round.

In ranged-
1. 873
2. 998
3. 1123

The few times it got to melee it was the same also

1. 1248

The fights never went more than 1 round in melee so I couldn't see if it stayed the same but all 10 fights had the same results per round.

sasquatchan April 14 2005 2:33 PM EDT

hmm. I thought someone figured this out in CB1, and I think it's the same here ..

During ranged rounds, the total possible damage MM can do is reduced, so, similarly, the max cap on reflected damage is reduced.

Once onto melee, where there is no reduction/penalty, you'll see the "much talked about and less understood" 0.4 (or so it was in CB1) constant talked about, that caps flash back damage.

Damage the caster inflicts upon you still has a random factor in it, but damage they take back is capped.. (And then further reduced by a ToE, which makes ToE mages a force to be reckoned with..).. I think someone even came up with what level your AMF has to be to reach the cap (and anything beyond that cap just makes the damage disappear -- it is magic :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 14 2005 2:48 PM EDT



It was me and MrsDi (and a few others I can't remember). Sash has got it about right.

The AMF backlash is based on your DD spell level, and is thereofre static until you train your spell or your opponent trains thier AMF.

I can't remember exactly but it works out to be something like;

AMF% x 0.4 (Level or Effect x Number of minions spell targets). With the backlash from Decay being the only things different and based off of something like 1/2 the casters HPs.

That's where the 0.4 Cap comes from. I'd have to check the forum from CB1 (and I'm sure I made a post about this in the start of CB2) to be exact.

But it's easy to work out, just take the value from your melee backlash as the ranged ones include the ranged penalty. Which was how I worked out the ranged penalty for the DD spells I used.

Manta April 15 2005 3:05 AM EDT

Here is the link Explain the .40 constant in AMF?.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 15 2005 3:49 AM EDT

Thank you! :D

[SoV] Shiv [/me Forge Stuff :D] April 15 2005 6:04 AM EDT

/me has no clue what you guys are talking about.

/me just knows that to counter most spells (hopefully) is to have the highest AMF in the game, lol :S

or some1 can come along and really simplify it :D

Manta April 15 2005 8:47 AM EDT

Assume that you have a mage minion.
The question is: "how much damage would my minion receive each round"?
The answer (if I understood correctly; please confirm GL):
0.4 times AMF% times the "theoretical" damage of the spell.
Now you can plan how much HP and endurance your mage needs to survive the AMF backslash.

Or the other way round: how much damage would my AMF inflict to a mage?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 15 2005 9:51 AM EDT

Yeah Manta, that's correct. One thing I am unsure of in CB2;

"For MM: D=0.4*Effect
For FB, CoC: D=0.4*(4*Effect)
For Decay: D=0.4*(0.5*Casters HP at time of attack)"

For FB and CoC, has the "Theorical Damage" (or the 4*Effect in formula above) changed to 5*Effect, to take into account these spells being able to hit 5 targets if the ooposing team uses a familiar granting tattoo?

Would someone with FB/CoC mind posting some effect numbers (ones in brackets) and melee round AMF backlash numbers to check this?

slurpz April 15 2005 11:53 AM EDT

Cone of cold: 28,821 (6,407)

Mage (AoE) cast Antimagic Field on Ice (0.40)

Melee Combat

4: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (5125)!
5: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (5125)!
6: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (5125)!


Mr. Death cast Antimagic Field on Ice (0.47)

4: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (6022)!
5: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (6022)!
6: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (6022)!
7: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (6022)!


A Bum cast Antimagic Field on Ice (0.71)

4: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (9097)!
5: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (9097)!
6: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (9097)!


Blade cast Antimagic Field on Ice (0.59)

4: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (7560)!
5: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (7560)!


Warrior cast Antimagic Field on Ice (0.53)

4: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (6791)!
5: Ice takes damage from his own Cone of cold (6791)!

hope this helps :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 15 2005 2:10 PM EDT

Thanks! Yes it does...

Your effect is 6407.

For the first AMF result (.40, 5125 returned) that works out to be;

AMF% * 0.4(X * 6407) = 5125

X works out to be 5.

So it looks like CoC and FB are based on the maximum number of minions they can target. So it should work for your other results. Just looking at the second;

6022 = 0.47 * 0.4(5 * 6407)
6022 = 6022.58

That's close enough for me! ;)

Running thorugh your other results quickly show they all fit as well!

I doubt FB differs to CoC.

slurpz April 15 2005 3:06 PM EDT

I'm glad that I can help :)

Jason Bourne April 15 2005 10:13 PM EDT

isnt amf cast on the amount maximum that the dd spell can do? and the damage should be increasing during ranged as ur spell gradually increases to full power as you get closer. the damage done in ranged is a percent of ur max damage, (displayed on home page) and the amf is the fraction of that max damage. since the max is not going up during melee (unless u find a way to train the dd during a fight) it will always be the percent of the max dd damage. maybe i am wrong on this...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 16 2005 5:13 AM EDT

If the effect for MM or effect x 5 for FB/CoC is the maximum damage they can deal, then that would be correct.

I took information from the melee rounds to not have to deal with the ranged penalty, but it's easy to work out what the penlty is by looking at the difference in the AMF backlashes.

AdminShade April 19 2005 9:14 AM EDT

Magic Missile:

Round 2: 5016
Round 3: 5643
Round 4: 6270 (Melee Combat)

6270 = 100% then:

5016/6270*100% = 80%
5643/6270*100% = 90%

MM gets 20% penalty in 2nd round and 10% penalty in 3nd round.



Fireball:
round 1: 6413
round 2: 7329
round 3: 8245
Round 4: 9161 (Melee Combat)

If 9161 = 100% then:

6413/9161*100% = 70% | 30% penalty
7329/9161*100% = 80% | 20% penalty
8245/9161*100% = 90% | 10% penlty

FB gets 30% penalty in 1st round, 20% penalty in 2nd round and 10% penalty in 3rd round.



Cone of Cold:

Round 4: 1932
Round 5: 1932
Round 6: 1932

Cone of Cold doesn't get ranged round penalties (duh)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 19 2005 9:46 AM EDT

So it seems the ranged penalty is generic and doesn't differ between spells.

30% reduction for any spell that fires in the first round of ranged.
20% reduction for the second round
10% reduction for the third.

:)

I'll hedge a bet that if CoC was changed to fire in the last round of ranged (like it did in CB1) it would do so with a 10% penalty.
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