Equipment advice requested for strat change (in General)

Warchild April 29 2005 12:18 AM EDT

I am considering changing from my rather...well, lets just say different, hybrid strat to a ToA ultra-light tank strat (xp concentration on HP, DX, and, AMF, though some ST will probably have to be trained beyond what i get from the ToA)

However, I have a lot of different ideas running through my head about the Equipment that will work best for such a strat.

I am really looking for advice about these particular choices so if you have additionally ideas they are welcome but I do ask that you give your opinion on these:

Choice 1: Beleg's or Tulkas

Choice 2: MH, BoNE + VA, or MH + VA (I will need some sort of VA to combat GA)

Choice 3: MS, BoM, or no shield (are the penalties, especially 2H + shield, really worth it when I will have very little overall AC no matter what I use)

Choice 4: HoD or HoI (note that almost all of my mage defense will be coming from AMF)

Choice 5: Archery, Bloodlust, or Evasion (to complement the DBs and the evasion granted from ToA) and yes, I know that this is not really an equipment choice but I would still like the advice.

I will be using ELB, DB, and ToA regardless.

Jason Bourne April 29 2005 1:10 AM EDT

im my opinion, id go TOE, and get a MH and va.....u would never die...

TheEverblacksky April 29 2005 1:19 AM EDT

1.)Beleg's for archery
2.)BoNE.... doesn't have any VA but that can be trained and it has a higher base which = more damage.
3.)MS? not exactly sure you'd have to play around w/ it.
4.)HoD.... you need as much AC as you can... the HoI won't be helping w/ all of the magic -'s from all of the other armor and weapons.
5.)Archery, you have an ELB what are you questioning about?

Sacredpeanut April 29 2005 1:25 AM EDT

Choice 1: Tulkas or even EG's - your battles will probably be quite long due to relatively low strength so there will probably be a lot of melee rounds per fight to get through.

Choice 2: MH - I think Dispell Magic will become popular again If/when SMTOE's get nerfed so you should probably stay clear of a Defensive enchantment if possible.

Choice 3: Possibly no shield - the penalties will hurt your dex quite alot and it means one less thing you have to put money into (especially if NW gets factored into PR)

Choice 4: Either one

Choice 5: Bloodlust - big DB's plus the Evasion bonus from the TOA should be enough to negate the +'s on most Weapons

Mags April 29 2005 1:35 AM EDT

Beleg's, BoNE + VA, no shield, HoD, Archery, DB's(EB's provide no bonus on DX from a ToA).

I'd go very heavy into ST, medium AMF, medium HP, no additional DX. Dump everything you can find into +to_hit. Slaughter mage and mixed groups. Glorious, glorious slaughter. There just aren't enough tank/physical groups out there to make focusing on DX or killing tanks worth your while right now, to be honest, and you can try to out-to_hit them. Your ToA dex will be *plenty* for doubles on every other type of char.

Don't expect VA to counter GA well at all though. MH + VA would maybe come closer. GA would Shred me without my ToE.

QBJohnnywas April 29 2005 1:44 AM EDT

I tried out the CoC single archer at the same time you started up. I gave up on it because I didn't have the equipment to compete with your version. Congrats on taking it so far!

Fishead April 29 2005 1:52 AM EDT

1: If you don't train str, you won't get much of a bonus from the Tulka's, you have an elbow, go with the Beleg's and train archery (see #5).
2: I really like a MH+VA, but the damage from the BoNE+VA could be good to. I've tried both and think MH + VA is better. I wasn't maximizing the damage potential of the BoNE though.
3: Again, no str bonus from a BoM if you don't train str, and lower bonus with a two handed weapon anyway. I don't get a dex penalty with a mage shield and MH, I do with a mithril shield. This penalty will only apply to the trained dex, not the dex from the ToA.
4: I would go with an HoI, it will help AMF a little, and it kind of has a coolness factor.
5: if you have an elbow, go with archery of course (see #1).

Looks like you have access to some nice gear.

QBJohnnywas April 29 2005 1:56 AM EDT

Mmm, twice I've deleted part of a post in two days. Roll on the weekend. I did add:

If you're staying single, are you going melee-centric or ranged? That's the decision to make. As you have the ELB, I'd concentrate on ranged more - so archery, belegs for the archery bonus, and the Morg for that VA boost once you're in melee. I wouldn't add anything else in terms of enchantments except AMF otherwise you're dlluting the remaining slots too much IMO.

I'd up your ST a bit more than DX, because as a single tank you're going to be higher in dx than a lot of tanks on multi teams - add db's, the toa's evasion to that and you're surviving through them missing you anyway.

If you're going light tank then a BoM is probably worth the dex penalty, even 50 or so AC is worth that. 10% damage reduction is better than nothing. However maybe you want to try and get a BoTh instead of the Morg to avoid the 2H+shield?

Perhaps you should ask GentlemanLoser how his single tank is working out - his is bloodlust and ToE'd but similar choices involved....

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 29 2005 4:25 AM EDT

Posting while flush is in effect so can't inspect your character. It's Alucard the CoC Archer right?

For a tattoo tank, even though taking very little damage due to my ToE I can't hit ToA tanks. As long as they continue to train dex in addition to their ToA gained dex. With a dex about twice the size of mine, and DB's + 10 Evasion from ToA, they seem just about unhittable (even my 1 dex attack per round) with my small (around +20) pth on my bth.

If you have an ELB, use it to it's full potential. That means Archery + Belegs. If you went Evasion or BL you'ld only get two rounds in ranged, so might as well use an E/AXbow. The Archery damage bonus + Belegs damage bonus works with your natural and ToA str, while the BoM and Tulks only use your natural Str, which you might consider leaving a lot lower than your natural dex.

The only time you'll have problems with a low str is a massive EC (and there's at least one team like that out there... Causes Mags and I no end of problems! :P ) but in that case, you just need to keep you ToA large enough to defeat that. A massive dex will help much more than Str.

On the other hand, Evasion would be nice, get it to about +20 easily enough, and that gives you a nice boost with your +10 and DBs. Large total Evasion and massive Dex would be ultimate anti tank.

I took BL only to couple it with my ToE (the increased damage taken from BL is reduced nicely by the ToE) and my Bth (bth and MH rule, VA that can't be dispelled). If all goes my way, I can heal more damage with the Bth's VA + a double hit than I take from my ToE reduced damage in a round. A couple of people on my fight list, i finish with more total life than I start with!

As for the MgS, it's not worth changing from AMF to one. AMF is the better choice (but takes xp).

I'm using a BoM because I only have natural str, it might be worth considering a MS (with the dex penalty) just for the extra AC it would give. Without body armour / cloak you'll be lacking AC (not too much of a problem if no physical attack hits and every magical attack is reduced to nearly nothing, but you might want it as a backup) and an MS would give you a big boost.

As for a defensive enchantment, it depends how much you want to split your XP by. GA and VA require a constant investment, while Prot you can leave when you get it to a level that's comfortable. Prot will also help because of tattoo tanks lowish AC. With an auto 20% VA from your melee weapon (assuming you use a bth or MH) you don't really need to train VA naturally.

If you use a melee weapon, you will be killed by every CBF opponent you face. You have no way of countering these.

If you don't use a melee weapon, you'll be attacking every other round in melee (starting from the second melee round) and take a hefty dexterity penalty.

Phew! Sorry for the long thoughts!

QBJohnnywas April 29 2005 4:53 AM EDT

And, as if by magic, the shopkeeper appeared....

Speak of the devil GL.... =)

AdminShade April 29 2005 11:11 AM EDT

Choice 1: Beleg's or Tulkas

- with your ToA and low training of ST I'd say Belegs + your ELB no matter what, your ST bonus would be so little that its not worth it to have TG's

Choice 2: MH, BoNE + VA, or MH + VA (I will need some sort of VA to combat GA)

- MH has 20% lifeleach which is good, BoNE has more damage but since your mage blocking comes from AMF you also need some additioinal thing to get tanks. either choose MH or BoNE + VA.

Choice 3: MS, BoM, or no shield (are the penalties, especially 2H + shield, really worth it when I will have very little overall AC no matter what I use)

- MS definately, your % DX penalty might be around 12% total with it + bow + 2 hand weapon but you won't care because a 20% dx penalty of your base (before ToA) ST is so little that you can discard it to be of real value, higher AC blocks more damage and MS gets nice and high AC even for low NW. (+23 for 450K NW)

Choice 4: HoD or HoI (note that almost all of my mage defense will be coming from AMF)

ToA & DB = no magic penalty
Belegs = 2% penalty
MS = 6% penalty
HoD = 5% penalty | HoI = 3% bonus | Corn = 6% bonus

if you option for some bonus to magic and optioned a HoI why not get a Corn instead? it has low AC true but HoI doesn't have high AC either. Either way choose between AC from HoD and block magic damage with the + or get a Corn and get a bit (6%) higher AMF and block a bit more damage that way... the DX penalty of a Corn won't hurt you too much (not even that 10%) because that penalty is only counted from the base DX and not from the ToA Dx.

Choice 5: Archery, Bloodlust, or Evasion (to complement the DBs and the evasion granted from ToA) and yes, I know that this is not really an equipment choice but I would still like the advice.

Bow => Archery | 40% more damage + an additional round (being a possible 50% more damage in ranged rounds also)
Bloodlust = not needed because of your ToA ST and your choice of melee weapon, against mages its only a burden to have Bloodlust because you can hack and slash away at their HP easily enough and against tanks you still have more ST usually.
Evasion could be nice but your DBs and ToA evasion should be enough to deal with the +'es of your opponents weapons already.

That is what I would choose if i had to choose like you :) hope it helps you Warchild.

Will [Retired] April 29 2005 6:54 PM EDT

A Cornuthaum -10% DX

AdminShade April 30 2005 9:25 PM EDT

-10% DX of a DX that is 1/4th of your to be total DX

lets say you have 50k DX trained (10% penalty is 5k so you would have 45k left)

then your tattoo adds 200k DX making you have 245k.

then that 10% becomes 2% ;)
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