Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith (NO SPOILERS!) (in Off-topic)
May 18 2005 6:00 PM EDT
We can start a separate "spoilers"/discussion thread if people want after they've seen it...
I was hoping to have seen it earlier, but they switched nights of the premiere and I couldn't make it. :-/ But it'll be fun tonight. Lots of midnight showing sold out here (at least a couple dozen) so I imagine that's the case all over?
I'm going to see it at midnight... yes, I'm a fairly die-hard SW fan. :) Who else is going at midnight?
May 18 2005 6:11 PM EDT
Spoilers? I would have thought even people who weren't major fans could probably tell the story themselves even before seeing the film!
I'm probably getting too old to be playing comp games - I saw the original film in the cinema in 1978. My dad used to do film extra work - he was in The Spy Who Loved Me (James Bond) and a few others and the summer of 76 he spent in a very very familiar white uniform. My dad was a stormtrooper! I was 7 and got taken to the set to see the filming. When the film came out though, none of my friends believed me when I told them.
And no, he wasn't the one who bashed his head. He was in several scenes though and if you want to spot him, when the Falcon is docked on the Death Star for the first time, four troopers come up on a lift in the docking bay. My dad was at the back of the four on the left...
I still get excited when I hear the music after all these years. And seeing the trailers for the new one made me realise quite how much the last two were missing Vader. What a villain! =)
May 18 2005 10:10 PM EDT
Yah, IMHO one of the problems with the last two were the lack of an overlying, overpowering evil. That's the thing about the middle 3, they're friggin dark. This will be too, thank god.
I got mine for midnight tonight. The one midnight showing on the "Ultrascreen" (Biggest, non I-max screen) sold out a MONTH AGO. I went on Monday night looking for tickets for that screen, and they laughed for the millionth time.
Yes/No: Does Revenge of the SithI explain why some jedis disappear when they die (e.g., Yoda, Obi-wan) and others dont?
lucas just makes things worse when he tries to 'explain' things
May 19 2005 3:51 AM EDT
Going to see it in exactly 3 hours and ten minutes :)
He's going to need a whole lot of darkness to make up for ep. I & II, but i am excited that it could possibly be..
May 19 2005 4:14 AM EDT
Nixon, I read the book a couple of weeks ago and it is explained in there. Basically Qui Gon Jinn was the first Jedi to be able to accomplish this feat. He contacted Yoda and taught him how to do so. Yoda, in turn, taught Obi Wan. So apparently every Jedi is able to reappear as an apparition from beyond the grave, they just have to know how to do so.
I just got home from seeing a midnight showing of the movie a little while ago and I wasn't all that impressed. This is the first time that I have ever read a book based on a movie and I've liked the book better. It seemed like the whole tone of the movie was different... and I know you're going to say that it's supposed to be 'much darker', but that wasn't made it seem like that. Perhaps it was the particularly awful acting. Perhaps it was the dialouge. It could have been a million little things. Regardless, it almost didn't feel like a Star Wars film. It was still a good film, and there were some parts that were dead on what I expected, but it was too laden with little things that bothered me to be a great film. I should hope that you go see for yourself before you take the word of some schmuck you don't even know though. :P
May 19 2005 4:42 AM EDT
Nixon, Yoda and Obi-one don't die in first 3 films they die in the last 3 well last 3 were the first 3 that came out lol. But if your question is does this film explain why all the Jedi's die then I don't know as I have not seen the movie, although I do know there was some description about some space chip full of Jedi's that died on it, this was in a starwars vehicles book thing though.
May 19 2005 4:46 AM EDT
He was asking why some Jedi can project images from beyond the grave, I think. Answering that would get dangerously close to a spoiler.
Actually my question is why do some jedis disappear when they die (e.g., Yoda, Obi-wan) and others dont?.
When Yoda died in his bed. he disappeared. When Obi Wan was killed by darth vader, he disappeared. When Qui Gon Jinn was killed by Darth Maul, he didn't disappear. His body was still there and they burned him.
May 19 2005 10:26 AM EDT
good point, inconsistencies i guess.
Well i just got back from the screening... & i'm on the fence as to whether it's just another average episode directed by lucas, or just another average episode directed by lucas. mind you it is a lot better than I & II.. he has managed to cut down the '1001 things that annoy me' from the previous 2 films down to about 3 or 4 & the battle scenes are pretty fantastic as a CGi showcase.
May 19 2005 11:08 AM EDT
Just got back... I liked it a lot. There were still scenes of really bad acting and lines, but, well, as far as that goes, I'd set me hopes pretty low anyway. :)
The rest of the movie was great. Good action scenes, on the ground and in the air. It's definitely much, much darker than any of the others in the series, and I'd also suggest that you see it before you take your younger child (as this one's PG-13, and the rest of the series has been PG) as it's pretty brutal in a couple of scenes. I didn't know Lucas had it in him. :) But I think it does a good job of showing why Darth Vader ended up being such an evil guy. That's what the whole movie is about, practically.
So yeah, it wasn't Oscar material, but for a fairly hard core SW fanatic (saw the first one when I was 5, and have loved them ever since), I feel like it was good "closure". Yeah, they could've done some things better, and it almost tried to tie in a little too well, but I don't think any questions were left unanswered -- at least questions directly shown by the movies.
As for Nixon's question... here's my thought. Yoda was a Jedi Master, as was Qui Gonn and Obi Wan, though Yoda is more of a master's Master. Obi Wan, I think if he'd died sometime during Epi 1-3, then he would've probably shared the same fate as Qui Gonn, but I think he had a lot of time alone to focus and build his power, and at the end would've also been considered a master's Master. In Episode IV, he told Vader, "if you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" -- he knew he had the ability to, perhaps, cheat death or something like that and to go straight over to the other side without "dying" or sufferring so much. This is all just theory, of course, and I'm sure a hardcore fanboy has read the answer in a book somewhere or something, but I don't know it. But that's my answer: Yoda, and Obi Wan, when they died were of such a Mastery that even death was different. (or subject to them, if you will)
i have a guess that the high chancellor that gets arrested turns into the dark sith, (the guy in the original 3 episodes who wears the hood)
And i will find out tonight....Is anyone here one of those guys who dresses up for this? >.>
May 19 2005 11:14 AM EDT
Not really a spoiler, as it's explained in the book in a way that won't make it into the movie, but I'll still be careful...
The book doesn't say Qui Gon was the _first_ to do it... it only says that he can.
As to why some do and why some don't: it's not spoonfed to you in the book, but if you read between the lines, it's apparent... of the Jedi we know can do this (Qui Gon, Yoda, and Obi Wan), two had at least a moment to prepare themselves for the transition to death; one did not.
It's still a mystery how Anakin did this in RotJ, but it's not too hard to come up with a weasel-like explanation for it.
May 19 2005 2:09 PM EDT
Oh I remember what you talking about when they disappear. Obi-won died and disappeared while fighting vader and not sure if Yoda did though, even though he was with Obi-won when they were both around Luke Skywalker. I guess some jedis disappear because of being more powerfull than others in some ways? Maybe its genetic.
May 19 2005 3:23 PM EDT
I think basically what Lucas was getting at in his Lucas sort of way, was that Qui-Gon had discovered a way to commune from the dead (which was mentioned in the movie), and Yoda and Obi-Wan learned whatever makes you disappear in the "between years" (which was not mentioned in the movie).
But the fact that Vader didn't know how to do it when he 'killed' Obi-Wan and then, a few months later, he's able to do it, doesn't that seem... stupid?
And, not to get on a religious rant or anything, but does one good act redeem you for all the nasty things you did for decades? How many people did he kill? He tortured his own daughter. There's gotta be a special circle in hell just for that. And then, one little act of goodness, and all the evil is totally taken away and he's on the same level as Yoda and Obi-Wan, who were on the good side all their life.
And no, I haven't seen any of the new ones at the theater. I got a rented copy of TPM for $5 from blockbuster, so I've seen that one. Haven't seen AotC. Don't plan on seeing this one. Maybe one day I'll find a DVD at a yard sale and pick it up for $2.
I love Eberts line: "To say that George Lucas cannot write a love scene is an understatement; greeting cards have expressed more passion." I guess I'm just not a teenage fanboy anymore. I like my movies to make sense and be well-acted.
I didn't mean for this to turn into this much of a rant. I guess I have some issues I need to work out.
Darth Vader died as a Jedi, not a Sith. He was the one who brought balance back into the force as prophesized.
It's obviously (Lol! Right...) a light side Jedi power. That only some/a few/the best? Jedi know.
Much like Jedi can't use force lightning, or TK choke (being dark side powers), Sith can't use 'Disapear when die and turn into crappy ghost'.
More powerful than you can possibly imagine my boot lace... It allows you to dance by campfire light and send prophetic (pathetic?) messages...
I'd take force lightning over that any day! :P
May 19 2005 9:35 PM EDT
Yeah Lucas' seems to have a knack for writing terrible dialogue if it's supposed to be serious. He's pretty good at writing comedy.
Part of the problem stems also from his choices of actors. Hayden Christianson especially.
If by comedy you're referring to ESB, that's a script he had help with.
If you're referring to the fart jokes in TPM, you need help as badly as Lucas. :)
Not only that, but the Leia/Han exchange "I love you" "I know" was an ad lib by Ford. Solo was supposed to say "I love you too"....
I wonder if anyone had the backbone to ad lib in 1,2 or 3?
May 20 2005 4:41 PM EDT
I was pretty much referring to Episodes 4-6 when I mentioned the comedy. Although Obi-Wan is pretty witty no matter who's playing him.
OH, and yeah, I knew Ford added that. Greatest adlib in history, duh! hehe
May 20 2005 7:34 PM EDT
/me sighs and gets out the spoon.
The common thread is _if_ you know how, you can contact this world from the next, and if that's true _and_ you have a little advance warning, you can prepare yourself such that you completely pass into the next world, leaving no smelly organic shell behind.
Qui-Gon: Qui-Gon got Mauled to death suddenly, and his body remained.
Yoda: died slowly and peacefully, so he had plenty of time to pull the Tardis trick at death.
Obi Wan: died at the hands of Vader, but just before, recall that "he closed his eyes as if in prayer"... and disappeared. So it doesn't take much time to prepare--just more than Qui-Gon had.
Anakin: blah. It's unlikely he learned the skill from anyone we know of, and he certainly had plenty of time to prepare during his slow, painful, and overacted death scene (or maybe it just seems that long).
So, put on your I *heart* George Lucas underwear, #include <weasel.h>, and say he was taught *on the other side*, by Yoda, Qui-Gon, and Kenobi, who saw his final act of redemption from afar.
[Bonus points if, as I do, you first imagine them giving him a vicious spectral manbeating beforehand, to make sure he understands the gravity of his earlier misdeeds.]
May 21 2005 8:02 PM EDT
Egh. After seeing the movie, I retract some of what I posted. If you've seen the movie, you'll know what part. If you haven't, I won't spoil it. :-)
Vader didn't really kill Obi-Wan did he? If you play the clip slowly, It seems as if Vader never hit Obi-Wan, Instead, He just kind of disappears and his robe falls. Is this crappy movie magic or plot? :P
May 22 2005 7:47 PM EDT
It was just crappy movie magic. If you watch the extras disc from the DVD release of the first trilogy you can see how they did it.
May 23 2005 3:29 AM EDT
May 24 2005 4:14 PM EDT
though that is different in dutch, shade thinks that the first word (rots=return of the sith) is a real cracker
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