DB's Effeciency (in General)

Can someone do a test or something to find out how good DB's work and like, how much Evasion they give at each plus and how good evasion works and stuff like that?

One plus equals one evasion. One evasion equals one less plus to hit on your opponents weapon.

So to negate ToAs, you need +50 DBs. Arg!

those +50's will only negate the ToA, then you have to get past the + on the weapons as well!

It's my understanding that DBs/Evasion only works on the +tohit on weapons. It doesn't effect DX.

correct Nixon, DBs do not help you against DX based hits

but the 50% chance of extra hit of the ToA (being +50 effect on all weapons) will be affected by Evasion.

And some DBs [6] (+50) $2,752,708 would add SO much PR.

About 50k on my Character, maybe more :S

ToA improves weapons +tohit??? I learn something everyday.

the 50% chance of extra hit of the ToA is not equivalent to +50, at least not to my understanding. Its not a straight plus-to-hit at all.

From the 'armor change part 1' changelog thread:

ToA no longer grants displacement; instead, grants 50% chance of extra hit
per round (melee + ranged). This is subject to negation by evasion.

The simple way to read that is as an extra +50 on your weapons, meaning with a 'real' pth of 50, you are guaranteed to hit every round regardless of DX, if evasion is not involved.

The more complicated way to read it is as a separate pth calculation. e.g. If your weapon pth is 50, you have a 50% chance of an extra hit. Then, your ToA +50 is used to calculate if you get a further hit. So instead of a 100% chance of hitting once, you have two 50% chances of hitting twice.

The latter sounds cooler to me because I have a ToA, but I suspect it is actually the former. In either case, if your total evasion equals the total pth from your opponents weapons and ToA, they will get no extra hits.

I believe that to mean none of above.

Say, after CB calculates the dex ratios of the two combantants and the effects of the current PTH, it decides you have a 90% chance to hit at least once per round and a 20% chance to hit twice per round. If you have a ToA now you still have a 90% shot to hit at least once per round (as the first hit is not "extra"), and now you have a 30% shot to hit twice per round (as that is 50% more than 20%).


That is at least my interpretation of the ToA's new bonus.

I am inclined to believe that salt3d has it right with his first scenario. 50% better chance of hitting is = to +50 on a weapon.

I think I understand what you mean, but it seems to be based on a different take on DX and PTH, in that everything is combined to give a final chance-to-hit. My belief is DX and PTH based hits are separate.

When comparing the DX of the attacker and the defender, CB will come up with either zero, one or two hits total. PTH has no effect on this. After the DX calculation, you have a straight percentage chance of extra hits based on PTH alone.

If I'm wrong, and DX and PTH are combined, I believe it would work as follows: DX difference/ratio gives you a percentage chance-to-hit, from 0% to something over 100%. Your PTH is added to this percentage to determine the number of hits total.

I went into all of that because it doesn't make sense to me to have a 90% chance of a first hit and a 20% chance of a second. If you're unlucky and don't get a first hit, can you still get lucky and get the second hit?

The reason I doubt your scenario is that since the change, I've started to see frequent triple hits. By your explanation, that wouldn't be very likely, since my weapons are +3 and +4.

DX and PTH are calculated separately. You can get up to 2 hits from DX alone, then depending on your weapon PTH you have an extra % chance of hitting again, if the + is over 100, you have 100% chance of hitting another time on top of the DX hits, and, say for example you have a +150 weapon, this would give you 1 garunteed hit after DX, and 50% chance of another one on top of that.

I did a LOT of DX/PTH/Evasion testing in CB1 when the DB were changed to the first item that a special ability that could be upgraded. Now most of the information that was given out (particularly by Slayer) is very accurate. There are however two exceptions to this.

1) First is the information on the ToA 50% chance to hit. The only reason I say it is not accurate is that people are only guessing as to how it is calculated. There has not been anyone, to my knowledge, that has done any serious testing on the matter.....yet.

2) The other is Slayer and Nixon's comments that evasion did not effect DX hits. According to Jonathan this is not true.
In a response to one of my evasion threads in CB1 Jonathan said that if evasion equalled PTH you could never become unhittable, but that if evasion was greater than PTH you could (with the appropriate DX gap.) This is a clear sign that evasion does affect DX hits.
I doubt that evasion could reduce DX hits alone or even if it would affect more than the random factor that gives a 20 dx
enchanter that ever so slight chance to hit the largest tank in the game. But again, to my knowledge, no serious testing has been done on this matter.....yet.

Keep you eyes open for further threads on this subject as I am sure they will start popping up soon. ;-)

no way it could be salt3d's second theory, otherwise most of us should be able to hit quads once in a while.

I don't see why salt3d is wrong - TOA has fixed +50 PTH, added to weapon. So you'd need at least +51 on the weapon to have a 1% chance at quads. Ask owners of the big elbs if they are getting any quads with their TOA - that should answer it.

I use a ToA and a +55 elb...have never had a quad hit.

I've got a ToA tank and my bow is a +11 - and since the change to ToA I get triple hits most fights. Before the nw/pr link I rented a very large bow for a while and with it I got triple hits every round, almost every fight. But never quad hits. I even tried it out against low level tank teams to see if the dex gap would make that happen - nothing....