Is CB2 for you? (in General)

CoolWater May 29 2005 11:56 AM EDT

We have come to the end of the change month and IMO the latest changes in CB2 has reach the point where the game has lost its fun significantly.

Fighters point of view:
Strategies and fighting have become very difficult and complicated for newbies or some players to have fun due to PR/NW link(when is the right time to upgrade?) and other changes to the gears and spells.

Campers point of view:
Too many useless rare gears (Exec, Katana, THF, Compound, MgS, BoM, MS, MC not to mention the numerous Lesser Tattoos). Most people are afraid to purchase any gears due to NW affecting PR.

Forger is now harder to find. Charging 75% is no longer a profitable business unless you are desperate for money and you are not good at fighting and camping. So they charged 80%. Now, Is it worth it to save 20% and wait 3-4 days for the gears to be ready while you can spend extra 20% and have the gear ready in less than 1/2 hour at the blacksmith.

This is just my opinion and view. I don't know if others have a different opinion. Post your input and please tell me that all the above are not true.

LumpBot May 29 2005 12:08 PM EDT

Well if everyone took a small hit, then it means the game just slowed down progression wise. It would be unfair if one type of player was significantly better than others. But since fighters/campers/forgers all dropped a level, it's fair.

WeaponX May 29 2005 12:11 PM EDT

cb2 got more interesting this month imo. now sefton and ranger can't run away with things

QBRanger May 29 2005 12:17 PM EDT

Interesting thoughts Cool.

Ill respond as follows:

As a Fighter the NW/PR things is a complete problem. New players are more confused then ever. Even experienced players are now looking at whether or not to get that extra piece of armor or to better their weapon. I understand Jon's point behind it, he's trying to stop the NW buying wins. But there are better ways to do it, IMO. First, make it that weapons/armor only work to a certain level based on your MPR. Lets say you have an MPR of 300k.. Then an elb will only be effective to x60 +60. Anything over that is useless for that character. Or have it impossible to equip items of high NW unless you have the MPR to do so.

As a fighter Ill just say a word about camping. Never liked it, never will. As a fighter I'm very happy prices have dropped but do feel bad for those who counted on camping. I find it diffucult to stomach the fact that someone can get lucky (and I realize some people do have a skill in camping) and get an item that can sell for 5 million. Thats more than I make fighting over a 2 month period. Nuf said

About Forging: I never really used a forger. I would rather have instant gratification then wait for days/weeks to save a bit of cash. Once I had 1 million forged to my elb for 1 week and it was the most painful week I had in the game.

However, I will make comments about other changes this month.

First: The fact that the + on the corn and COI increases the effectiveness of spells is a great idea. Gives mages something to spend their money on.

Second: Having some armors give str and dex based on the + is an outstanding addition also.

Third: Removing the CBF is one of the best ideas this month. The TBF is an adequate replacement. This initially flooded the market with money but it was well worth it. Now, one item (and some will say now its the elb) does not decide battles.

Fourth: The more BA to be bought. This is good and bad. Now more money to spend but more MPR to get. Im for it.

Fifth: The new supporter item. This I am torn on. Its a great item but makes all other items below it, including katanas and execs obselete. Now, IMO, there are only 5 melee weapon, which is not that bad a thing. Now, new players can get their hands on a Kat or Exec cheaply and have a good start to the game.

Sixth: The TOE nerf. I think it was needed for game balance. Last month the scores of SMTOE's were out of proportion to the PR. Now they are more in line. Especially with the CBF removal it is a good thing. Now FB SMTOE's are viable again. The TOE has not been destroyed just proportioned accordingly.

Seventh: The TOA additions. The evasion was removed, which is appropriate for an offensive type of tattoo. If evasion was to be on any tattoo, it should be on the TOE. The increase to str and the bonus to pth is very powerful. We might see the TOA become the TOE of next month. But, I think the power of the TOA now, comes from the large ELB's that I, Jochumia and Gyaxx have all of which are over 20 million NW.

Too long a rant, too much said.

[FireBreathing]Chicken May 29 2005 12:23 PM EDT

I think the past changes made CB2 more interesting. It pretty much nerfed everything in CB2, which makes it all seem bad. But now, networth/USD doesn't play as big of a role as it used to. More strategy in equipment choice. People who can't afford "uber" gear can make do without.

CoolWater May 29 2005 12:26 PM EDT

Very informative input Ranger. Thanks for that. I Like the way you explain it.

I think there's one more thing Jon needs to do which is to get rid of all the Lesser Tattoos. Never understand the need for them if you have normal tattoos. It's just like having lesser MCM, lesser COI, lesser Corn and so on.

[FireBreathing]Chicken May 29 2005 12:52 PM EDT

We have compound bows and katanas and execs. We mostly had them because full tattoos were really rare at the start of the game. Nowadays, yeah.. they're pretty commonplace.

Special J May 29 2005 1:05 PM EDT

CB2 now requires thought, as in "when to upgrade".

It is no longer as much of a click and fight game. If thought being forced into something removes the fun, I wish you the best of luck.

Nixon Jibfest May 29 2005 1:06 PM EDT

re: lesser tattoos. new players can't afford 200k for a tattoo so lessers definitely have a place. There should actually be MORE of them like leather boots.

Nixon Jibfest May 29 2005 1:29 PM EDT

re: camping. Some campers spend 800-1200+ BA per day. That may be more than most people spend fighting. In addition, it's more time consuming, unlike fighting for most who can zoom through 160 battles in 20 minutes. It might be more profitable *if* you get lucky in the store, more times than not, campers don't get so lucky and at the end of the day, we don't end up with a higher PR character like fighters do. Keep in mind that the BA you use for fighting also earns you extra value on your character. that's one asset that campers don't have that fighters do. .... oooo, i just grabbed an adam from the store. i'll shut up now.

Duke May 29 2005 3:12 PM EDT


steve budice char as been sold for 3/4 M.In overall you can make that in 3 day camping.

Bolfen May 29 2005 3:35 PM EDT

Most people can probably zoom through 160 BA in 5 minutes.

And why are BoM's useless now, pray tell?

Blarg May 29 2005 3:39 PM EDT

I don't think BoMs are worthless. Not every tank needs to have a tattoo on him.

CoolWater May 29 2005 6:29 PM EDT

Another thing, giving away katanas and THFs to newbies are no longer helpful. The gears will just make it harder for them to fight.

Duke May 30 2005 5:21 AM EDT

I agree with coolwater

A new players with 4k MPR that get a small coumpund or composite will see is PR largely increase by it (%).The only option open for new player is having a mage until 25K MPR them they can start there tank with a compound.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] May 30 2005 6:28 AM EDT

Ranger am not completely sure I am 100% with you on that one as in my eyes Jon has actually done exactly what you have pointed out there.
If your weapon is above the "allowance" then your pr will rise meaning you are lower in pr than your effective level for the weapon so all it means is keeping your weapon at the same ratio to your MPR is essential. This is essentially the weapon only being effective at certain MPR so best to swap down to a lesser upgraded, I see very little difference to your point.
This only works with weapons though and armor does increase it straight away but that is because noob characters don't need armor and if you think about it Jon is doing a good thing on the armor side to try and prevent the "invincible" AC area being reached as this would cause a huge rise in pr that it would likely not be worth it. In my eyes it was bad enough when Spid was at least 350AC after prot but now in CB1 someone is on nearly 400AC and blocking that much damage just seems to remove much strategy from that area as you just end up having to have a ridiculously big ELB or to skip the character.
I think this was well implemented and congratulate Jon on his efforts here.
/me goes back to CB1 to forge :P

sssimmo May 30 2005 6:39 AM EDT

Firstly, almost every change this month has weakened the future plans for my character. But, I am not sure if I can say that CB2 has become less fun. I HAVE found that I had to change the direction my strat was going to compensate....and i'm still thinking about it. This month has definately got the brain working.

If this game didnt make you think, re-think, calculate and re-calculate constantely then I doubt there would be so much interest in it. Anywho isn't this what makes CB so unique.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] May 30 2005 6:57 AM EDT

What makes CB so unique for me is just the community contribution as a whole, I come to use my ba for 5 minutes end up here for an hour talking, I would still be off playing Diablo 2 if it wasn't for people here and the fact that over there they are all German :P

trigun May 30 2005 7:09 AM EDT

hmmnn...if you think about it..most of the changes jon has made has been in response to people's complaints and/or in depth analysis of this that changes has been complaints have appeared..i somehow feel for jon..its always too hot or too cold..hehe but in a way..thats how cb grows..^_^

Duke May 30 2005 12:28 PM EDT

Ppl complaint on few detail.The weapon allowance should come with a bottom level of 250K NW allowance so new players can equip a bow and weapon.
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