ELS vs Vorpal Blade (in General)
June 16 2005 9:20 PM EDT
Can someone who is much better at this strategy stuff help out here?
What approximate levels are equal between these two weapons?
ELS has higher base damage but that surely cannot make up for the reduction in defense the Vorpal receives.
The ELS is roughly the same upgrade cost on +to hit but the x damage costs are significantly lower. example : x42 ELS cost 43,890 VB cost 64,597
Then you have the whole NW/PR factor if you can afford to keep the Vorpal damage at the same level.
Does anyone have a clue what my question is or is it painfully obvious to all but me?
June 16 2005 9:34 PM EDT
Then there's the argument as to how effective a Vorpal is against people with low AC.
in the long run, i think ELS will come out doing more damage, simply because you can afford to take the X farther, and the fact that few teams have enough AC to really make a VB usefull.
June 16 2005 11:23 PM EDT
The ELS is cheaper to upgrade. The Vorpal Blade is a better weapon, overall. IMHO.
Up here, there are people with ToEs. Big ToEs. They're able to absorb/neutralize/deflect half of, say, 100K of damage. If you turn around and unabsorb/un-neutralize/re-deflect half of that damage, you can hit for an extra 25K in that one hit. Maybe you'll do that two or even 3 times in a round.
Then there are people with 'Walls'. Minions with big ACs (200+) with lots of hit points. If someone has a 238 AC (approximately), they'll only take half-damage from physical attacks. Again, same logic as above, a VB pays for itself pretty easily.
For the same price you might end up with a x100 (+100) ELS and a x90 (+90) VB. (Has anyone run the numbers? I can't be bothered to check.) I'm thinking the VB still is worth it against high AC/Prot/Endurance. If you're mostly fighting low AC and no-Endurance guys, an ELS may be better for you.
I traded with Cau for an hour - Morg for a VB. Seemed to make very little difference. I was beating everyone just the same. He said the same thing. I think it's an awesome weapon for the price.
June 17 2005 12:00 AM EDT
If someone has an x50-x60 VB they can loan me for a day, I'll run some trials.
June 17 2005 12:18 AM EDT
The two swords are very equal, it's just the opponent that determines which is better. The NW/PR factor really doesn't come into play for weapons unless you're putting an abnormal amount of NW onto it (my character currently gains 0 PR from over 8m NW in weapons).
June 17 2005 12:24 AM EDT
I think Vorpal is better than Elven for one reason.
As people keep saying in the long run. Well in the long run reducing someone's 280 AC in half will significantly increase damage without costing as much compared to the Elven Long Sword.
It seems that it won't do much damage to low AC people.
I think the vorpal wasn't too strong until the NW=PR made armor users spend less cash on AC.
June 17 2005 6:00 AM EDT
250 AC blocks ~52% damage (physical)
attacking with a vorpal blade will make that AC be 125, making it block only 26%
thats a huge difference when talking about doing a base of 100,000 damage
250 AC makes it: 48,000 damage
125 AC makes it: 74000 damage
thats an increase in damage of little under 54%
(yes i'm only talking about physical damage and only am talking about the AC part of damage blocking, having protection and endurance will make the difference bigger i think)
June 17 2005 6:04 AM EDT
and as for the X100+100 versions of both weapons, feel free to visit shades cb2 site and the blacksmith upgrade tables ;)
i will be getting those prices myself most likely but my excel isnt working atm...
June 17 2005 6:55 AM EDT
x48 for each weapon
ELS - $59,265
Vorpal - $93,838
Vorpal cost at that level is 158%
ELS - $28,659
Vorpal - $36,895
Vorpal cost at this level is 129%
So with that little data it seems that the higher the levels of fighting (blades and defense encountered) the better the Vorpal Blade would be but also the cost difference is non-linear.
June 17 2005 6:58 AM EDT
cost difference is non linear because both costs are linear themselves, wish i had my excel to make a good point ;)
June 17 2005 9:28 AM EDT
Couple of things...
Taking a weapon to x100 or so, I think the costs will become prohibitive. Take a look at CB1...the executioner's sword... Largest named exec is x92 +89 and has a net worth of around 29 million. An x91 +90 ELS is worth around 22 million.
The VB's upgrade curve is not as gentle as the exec, so it would cost even more to get up to that level. I am not sure how reliable CB1 numbers are here, but Yohan has already presented examples for here on CB2.
Almuric has a good point about the ToE. But with the way ToEs are currently configured, the best way to beat them is to get a massive weapon, not necessarily just cut endurance in half. Once you deliver damage above the ToE's ceiling, it all hits at 100%. That's not the same for armor, but I just thought I would comment on the ToE scenario. If I had a choice when fighting a ToE, I would rather deliver a massive blow to get above the ToE upper limit than hit softer and cut endurance in half...
Jonathan has definitely made it a tough choice, though. It will be interesting to see how high folks upgrade their VBs...
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