NUB and tattoos (in General)

QBRanger July 5 2005 4:28 PM EDT

I have seen a very disturbing trend. That is players getting a decent level tattoo and using the NUB to get it very high very fast.

This is very disheartening for those of us who leveled our tattoos from the beginning. Yes true we did loan them out till about 100k level and then for a while used rental till that got nuked. But when rentals got elimated the high level tattoos lost a lot of levels anyway.

But seeing some of the tattoos rocket past other more established ones is disheartening to say the least.

If the NUB is hear to stay, and I think it is, the faster levelling of the tattoos perhaps needs to be addressed.

[EG] Almuric July 5 2005 4:33 PM EDT

Not to be disruptive or negative or a jerk or anything, but let me paraphrase what I hear you saying:

"It was cool when I leveled up my tattoo faster than other people by gaming the system, but now that other people have a way that I can't participate in, please put a stop to it."

Cry me a river. Or maybe I misunderstood. My bad.

Aco July 5 2005 4:33 PM EDT

you mean here to stay? :)

Yeah, this is kinda unfair since the tattoo can be sold for high money, and a low leveled one can be bought again and leveled and sold etc. But if the tats still had lower leveling, it would go off-sync with the rest of the char growth :/

Jason Bourne July 5 2005 4:37 PM EDT

heh, i know the exact tattoo he has in mind belongs to an 8k mpr char :D

*sigh* i think another way a lot of the problems can be solved is putting virtual pr back in, this way people dont store up so much exp on their characters to exploit certain parts of the system, be in clan bonuses, or the NUB or regeneration rates.

1) the NUB seriously needs to stop affecting tattoos...
2) virtual pr definately needs to come back in
3) the NUB needs to die :D (well at least only last until a certain mpr level cut off, where virtual pr will be calculated as well)
4) NUB should be calculated based on PR and not mpr...(that might help)

thats all i can think of now...but ranger has a point. this guys tattoo leveled up 20k in 24 hours....thats seriously not cool...

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 5 2005 4:37 PM EDT

Almuric, it doesnt matter that people used to be able to rent them out to level them up, since Jon reversed the effects of that anyways.

Jason Bourne July 5 2005 4:40 PM EDT

almuric...hes been playing for 15 days now, in 2 days his tattoo will pass yours. doesnt that bother you? and yea ranger could still loan his toa out and have people level it up, just like me or you could, but still not nearly as fast...

QBRanger July 5 2005 4:44 PM EDT


Let me paraphrase.

I did loan out my tattoo till it was about 75k MPR, but over 1/2 of that was my own levelling. I did rent my tattoo out, but when Jon took that away my tattoo lost a bunch over levels, almost 30k levels, so that was a wash.

Now im saying that the NUB with tattoos is a bit much and fast for tattoos to level.

But as you talk about gaming the system, those aspects, that is loaning (when the loan cost was reasonable) and rentals were available to everyone. The NUB is not. Also, how can one game the system when everyone is doing the same thing. Its not like I went and did something devious and illegal.

So I dont think I will cry you a river today. I will assume you misunderstood me.

Undertow July 5 2005 4:58 PM EDT

I've looked through the ToAs (mines on the list now, yah!) but I can't find a tattoo high up that belongs to anyone whose played "14 days"

AdminQBVerifex July 5 2005 5:01 PM EDT

Why doesn't jon let us reset ourselves so WE too can have NUB? ;)

LumpBot July 5 2005 5:02 PM EDT

Verifex that was answered all ready by Jon. He said he didn't want people selling out constantly because of reassurance they could get top 10 again.

QBRanger July 5 2005 5:03 PM EDT


Jon addressed that fact in the last thread on the NUB. But I can see 2 main reasons.

First you can sell your stuff, then rebuy it to have a head start. The NUB is for totally new players.

Second, youll have an advantage knowing the game that is very unfair with the NUB. Part of the NUB, IMO, is letting them recover from mistakes made early on.

Special J July 5 2005 5:05 PM EDT

Let me bring a giant helping of reality to all these constant NuB and the new influx of tattoo posts,

Quit peeking over the fence to see how green the neighbor's yard is and start worrying about your own grass.

The more you people whine about this, then that, then this again the next week is showing how udderly simple minded you all are.

Do not blame the NUB, blame the players that are explaining how to take advantage of the NUB when combined with other parts of the game.

Ala, tattoos.

Remove the effect of the NUB from tattoos, remove tattoos, or remove the message board and let people complain in private.

QBsutekh137 July 5 2005 6:00 PM EDT

OK, Almuric, how about this:

I didn't loan my tattoo out at all, nor did I rent it out. And I still find any game element that allows a tattoo to grow out of proportion to the whole of CB to be a bad, bad, bad thing.

Who cares if the messenger has a few skeletons in the closet (that he openly admitted to, I might add). That doesn't detract from the message.

The bottom line is that this could be used to build an enormous tattoo, Top Ten player (immune from reward issues) ends up buying it, and then no one can touch that player. The tattoo controls all. That is not a good thing, in my opinion.

AdminJonathan July 5 2005 6:09 PM EDT

nothing in the NUB allows a tattoo to grow out of proportion to its owner

Mikel is not training xp while his tattoo levels, making his tattoo look like it gains xp super-fast (which it is, but only because the whole char is)

QBsutekh137 July 5 2005 6:12 PM EDT

Not out of proportion to its owner...out of proportion to the rest of CB.

Any item allowed to grow continually within the NUB (if it were to be xferred, for example), allows it to grow out of proportion with any normal characters CB life. Other characters HAVE to break out of the NUB eventually. A transferred tattoo never does, and the NUB is substantial enough that it seems to me this could make an eventual imbalance..?

AdminJonathan July 5 2005 6:12 PM EDT

yes, but that's not what ranger is talking about.

or if it is, it's a dup of the loaning tattoos thread that I think he posted himself not long ago.

QBsutekh137 July 5 2005 6:13 PM EDT

By the way, I have no idea on how this could be stopped... It is like trying to control if all the NUB folks decided to pool their cash into one enormous weapon...nothing could stop that either. Do we have reason to believe folks will continue to use this hand-me-down effect through multiple NUB cycles?

QBsutekh137 July 5 2005 6:15 PM EDT

I thought it was exactly what he meant, though I am not sure I have seen this other thread you are referring too...

AdminJonathan July 5 2005 6:19 PM EDT

this thread

wasn't started by Ranger, but he posted in it

QBsutekh137 July 5 2005 6:27 PM EDT

OK, well then consider this a hijack and let's talk about my point? *grin*

AdminJonathan July 5 2005 6:27 PM EDT

it's a potential problem

haven't decided on the solution

QBsutekh137 July 5 2005 6:29 PM EDT


(you just know I had to make a nonsensical response to that...)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 5 2005 7:20 PM EDT

"It is like trying to control if all the NUB folks decided to pool their cash into one enormous weapon...nothing could stop that either"

I don't think any new player would do that... Spend thier new hard earned cash on a weapon that's not going to be thiers in the end.

But with a tattoo, it's more insidious...

<Vet with big Tat> "Hi New User X, how would you like to use this massive tattoo that'll let you kill peole *really* far above you? It won't cost you anything, or take anything away from your character, in fact, you'll earn more xp and cash this way. All you have to do is return it to me the moment your NUB runs out..."
<New User X> "Um, yeah sure.." (goes off to kill above his level for ~ 4 month)
<Vet with now bigger Tat> "Hi New User Y..."


NSFY July 5 2005 7:28 PM EDT

"Quit peeking over the fence to see how green the neighbor's yard is and start worrying about your own grass.

The more you people whine about this, then that, then this again the next week is showing how udderly simple minded you all are."

MOOOO! Love the cow theme!

/back to chewing his cud and looking longingly over the fence

QBRanger July 5 2005 7:30 PM EDT

Yes, its a dupe. With work hecetic sometimes my brain is fried.

Ill accept any penalty for duping a thread.

Sry again.

Mikel July 5 2005 7:33 PM EDT

since he's a VET should he get double penalized?

Duke July 5 2005 9:52 PM EDT

From ranger:
Second, youll have an advantage knowing the game that is very unfair with the NUB. Part of the NUB, IMO, is letting them recover from mistakes made early on.

I have report about 3 month ago that NuB will be overkill for many players.Assuming a players come and dont know anything about CB is a assumption.Even if they do know nothing is can only take them 2 to 3 day to found someone with great skill that is willing to help them.

AdminJonathan July 5 2005 10:34 PM EDT

and yet, the newbie bonus has been in effect since Jan 8, and the sky hasn't fallen

QBsutekh137 July 5 2005 11:55 PM EDT

GL, I agree it's different, but as far as I am concerned, I dislike any one thing (especially an item) to have the capability to become a deal-breaker. I hated Spid's Lochaber back on much as he liked to say the weapon wasn't what mattered, it did in most configurations, especially those where RedDwarf was beating him. It seems to always come down to items, which is why in CB1, it almost always comes down to tanks.

Now we have tattoos, so at least the world isn't COMPLETELY tank based (though ToAs are still a very dominant force at the top), but that just means the large item can end up a chameleon that can take advantage of whatever-is-best-between-change-months. As you say, the tattoo is more easy to grow within the realm of the NUB, as it requires no pooling of resources -- only use. I made my weapon comment just to show that benevolent alignments CAN result in some big items too, and in a lot of ways, tattoos are just items. It is the way they AREN'T like other items that is making them a tad hard to balance here on CB2, so I guess I do pretty much agree with your post.

[T]Vestax July 6 2005 1:29 AM EDT

The problem boils down not to tattoos in general, instead it only seems to be with familiar tattoos. GL's example couldn't work with ToA, ToE, or ToB.

If you designed the game so that you would allow people to exchange minions with eachother freely, what restrictions would you place. I'm sure you would all want a lot of restrictions indeed. But as it is there is only one for these tradeable minions, and it's that they can't be put in rentals, which is something none of you would think should be allowed with a minion if you didn't already think of familiars as items.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 6 2005 2:06 AM EDT

Oh! This has just reminded me of a suggestion I made a while ago for the biggest character... But it could be used to make the bigest item as well...

Pursade a group of new users to form an E clan. Focus on one item. (Works better with a tat) Get one player to use all thier BA, then transfer it to the next guy (taking advantage of the lower transfer costs).

Super charged Tat.

Or weapon. Imagine these guys all having archers and passing around a shared ELB, they all put money into to BS. They'll be crap without it, but when it's their turn to fight with it, they'll fight high.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] July 6 2005 8:35 AM EDT

There are already huge ELBs in the game thanks to USD and you don't have to pass it round. The thing is you can't spend USD to up your tattoo but the NUB does allow you to take an already large tattoo and then grow it at a faster rate than others.

Mikel July 6 2005 10:46 AM EDT

You can buy a tat for USD, go look around.

How many NUBs have been able to actually cracked the top 10 to date?

Instead of constantly crying about the game mechanics, use them to your advantage. This is a game, and in any game, if you don't use every possible angle to beat your opponents, then maybe you don't deserve to be at the top.

QBsutekh137 July 6 2005 11:50 AM EDT

(Disclaimer: I am ambivalent about the NUB.)

Mikel, one main gripe people have about the NUB is that they CANNOT use it to their advantage. They never got it, they cannot have it now, and they can never have it. Plenty of folks would even be willing to give up their entire set of characters and user ID to start over and try the NUB out. That has been forbidden (for very logical reasons), but it is still frustrating. That's the whole point -- folks who were already established _cannot_ "use it to their advantage" as you put it.

Also, I have a hard time defining the NUB as a "game mechanic", especially when it is available to some and not to others. It has nothing to do with tactics, strategy, money management, or any of that. It is a "handicap" program meant to stimulate competition and diversity in that competition.

Just had to clarify that...while also beating an already dead horse. Sorry about that.

NSFY July 6 2005 12:03 PM EDT

Smells like a business plan.

Todd July 6 2005 12:25 PM EDT

Semi-unrelated. I'm sure very few will even notice this: :)

There is a popular theory that suggests a correlation between Chet's opinions (postings), and changelogs.

I scoffed at the vet who suggested this to me a while ago, but now I'm starting to notice that Chet certainly has Jon's ear.

/me goes back to not playing much anymore.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 6 2005 12:26 PM EDT

Chet took the words right out of my mouth.....We never "had" and never "will" have the experience of the NUB, And i think it's unfair that i get passed by you after you being here a month, and you have a larger Tattoo than myself, where as i leveled it myself from lvl 20, What level did both of your tattoos start at Mikel? If i could make a new character and use the NUB, hell ya i would....but we dont have that luxury, the people that joined on the ripe old day of January 1st. Yea i have the use of getting cb2 for cb1, but that doesnt even compare to having the NUB. I would trade the two anyday.

[EG] Almuric July 6 2005 1:39 PM EDT

My son was in first grade this last year. At his bus stop, there were 3 girls, all in 4th grade. One day, one of them was wearing an 'Algebra is for lovers' t-shirt. I asked her why she was wearing it, since obviously she couldn't be taking algebra yet. She assured me that she was, indeed, taking algebra. Fourth grade!

I didn't get to take algebra until 8th grade; and I was going to a college preparatory school. I took a computer programming class at the local community college the summer between my junior and senior year of high school. My senior year, my high school offered a programming class, the very first one. If it had been offered earlier, I would have jumped for joy.

Now, my son plays on a computer every day. I haven't taught him how to format a drive and install an operating system yet, but it probably won't be long.

Why am I telling you this? Well, since you guys were whining about something that happened a while ago that you didn't get to do, I figured I'd whine too. Being a math/computer geek I see growing up today as being much cooler than it was in my time.

What do all you people expect from the NUB? To be #1? If that's your goal, why aren't you? Is this a new goal? How come you didn't bust your butt from day one and fight like many other people did? I admit, I took it easy for the first couple of months and was way behind. Lately, I've turned on the juice and am nipping at Ranger's heels.

I think Jon's a pretty smart guy. I bet he's got the NUB figured to let new guys pull even with the guys at the top. I doubt seriously that Jon would make it so that a new guy could pull way ahead of the veterans. It hasn't happened yet and I would bet my character on it not happening in the future. That'd be the death of CB because all the vets would mutiny and leave.

Look, right now the NUB is what, four months long? So in November, it's possible that a new guy could be at the same level the veterans will be at after eleven months of playing. So what?

I learned to juggle many years ago. Took me several weeks to where I could keep three bean bags in the air for at least 20 throws. My roommate at the time was a natural athlete (unlike prototypical geek me). One day he decided that he'd learn; I showed him the basics and within 2 hours he was as good as I was after weeks. Was I supposed to be all upset and whine at Mother Nature or the gods of genetics? We juggled together for a while. Then guess what happened? He got tired of it. Quit. And I'm still juggling these many years later. Moved on to rings. Thinking about getting some pins.

Persistence and dedication, people. It's the only way to get to the top. (And I admire your persistence and dedication in reading all the way to the bottom of this lengthy post.)

You know what I think it's time for? A new Quarter-Blender. And I'll be voting for the guy who whined the least.

Special J July 6 2005 1:59 PM EDT

Admiration, sir Almuric.

QBRanger July 6 2005 2:06 PM EDT

I really have no comment for such a foolish post except to say your comparing RL to a game. One has factors beyond human control, the other is an artificial situation/universe.

[EG] Almuric July 6 2005 2:17 PM EDT

Many people think our universe is just an artificial simulation. A difference only in degree, not kind.

Quark July 6 2005 2:24 PM EDT

Oh come on, Ranger. RL is also full of artificial constraints, many of them government imposed to level the playing field. Think of this like a graduated tax & income redistribution system. You're the "richest", and getting taxed like crazy to subsidize a starting point for the new "poorest".

Quark July 6 2005 2:25 PM EDT

And, like RL, you are free to move to a new tax system, but not free to change your identity and restart in the current regime.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 6 2005 3:34 PM EDT

i will compare it to RL in the fact that i wasted 3 months to build up a char then start over and spend 4 months on a char, and then get passed up by a nub whos been here 1 month....i wasted 7 months. Right now i would honestly like to get reset (only if i receive the NUB) and start over just to catch up since i know the game...

I would rather spend 1 month to get to the same place i would be at in 7 months.....*sigh*

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 6 2005 3:39 PM EDT

Challenged - 25,741 battles

Challenged - 118,445 battles

And he beats me...

insane? I think so...=/

Special J July 6 2005 3:45 PM EDT

You average 16k fights a month and he averages 25k fights per month, if you had averaged 25k fights per month you would be much much larger in size and would have been through 175k fights.

Mikel is NOT the norm on users with NuB bonuses either, he is an exception.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 6 2005 3:48 PM EDT

umm... my char has been around for a bit less than 4 months, so try averaging 29,500 fights a month...=X

AdminJonathan July 6 2005 3:49 PM EDT

add "didn't start over twice" to the list of things mikel did differently :P

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 6 2005 3:52 PM EDT

the first one i didnt use for very long, but my current char has been around for 4 Thanks for pointing it out Jon...=P But, i average higher fights per month than him still...=/ O well...

Special J July 6 2005 3:52 PM EDT

over the 7 months you have played, you have not averaged 25k fights per month, yet Mikel has.

Like Jon stated, he has not started over twice and lost the time/effort put into the prior setup.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 6 2005 3:54 PM EDT

I'm not talking about the 7 months, I'm talking about the 4 months my char has been around...why would i talk about chars i dont use anymore (which would be the other 3 months)? The 4 months of use in my current char i average 29,500 fights a month.

AdminJonathan July 6 2005 4:01 PM EDT

because the nub is meant to help new players catch up to people who have been playing since Jan 1, without restarting

corollary: if you restart halfway through, people with the nub have an excellent chance of passing you

Myonax July 6 2005 4:09 PM EDT

Indeed this is my situation. I have been passed by a lot of nubs and I restarted after 2-3 months.

Undertow July 6 2005 4:11 PM EDT

Me too, and me too, and I don't care. They're where I would be if I started and stuck with Undertow instead switching to Death.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 6 2005 4:45 PM EDT

Can't the NUB be taken down a little bit? I mean make it based on like the #100 player instead of the top player... The top player is the top player for a reason,

reason being:
- He put time and effort into his char. Main word being "time"

I just dont see how its fair to give someone 1, 2, or even 3 months to get to #1 because of some bonus not all of us got to receive. But if it's based on the #100 char, they will catch up to people, but not to everybody, but they could still catch up to #1 if they really really tried. I try really hard, and i pass people by without them knowing...but never pass 50 people in a week who've been here for longer than me...=/

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 6 2005 4:46 PM EDT

OK, just a little devils advocacy...

"if you restart halfway through, people with the nub have an excellent chance of passing you"

If someone with a NUB can take 1 maybe 2 months (under half of their bonus) to pass someone who re started halfway through, this means that with the rest of their NUB they could re start and *again* pass the person who started on Jan 1st, but re started.

The older player, without the NUB is penalised for re starting, while the player with the NUB get's to re start without as much of a set back.

But that's ok, because they're new?

AdminJonathan July 6 2005 4:47 PM EDT

it's like this

the NUB lets new players catch up to where they "would have been" if they had spent that same effort since Jan 1 like the vets

if they slack off after that they will fall behind like anyone else

Undertow July 6 2005 4:49 PM EDT

Jon doesn't want to penalize players and stop them from being number one simply because they didn't know this game existed.

CB2's motto should be "Just got started? Shoot for the top!"

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 6 2005 4:55 PM EDT

:) Got a sugesstion I hope is fair.

When a new users starts, the PR of the highest (or whatever possition is deemed correct) character is noted versus their account.

Until the PR of all thier characters combined reaches this value, nomatter how long it takes, they get increased rewards. As everyone else is continuing to fight as the new user does, they'll never reach the top guys. It'll just make it easier for them to reach a place the "could" have been if they had started on Jan 1st.

What do you think?

QBRanger July 6 2005 5:14 PM EDT

I think I understand the rationale for the NUB. However the game now is very different then it was in Jan. First, in Jan we did not have supersized FF's we could equip and attack people 200k PR above us for super rewards. Everyone was under 100k PR for a while. That first month saw very slow growth. Now a large FF combined with the NUB outstrips anything anyone could have done in Jan-Apr.
Also in the beginning there was no one to attack with a super high PR as there is now. Even if I had a great strat, massive weapon, and large tat I could only attack someone just above my PR. But a person with the NUB has lots of characters to choose from when starting with the NUB. Multiply that by the NUB and viola massive growth.
I would refer you to CT. He has restarted and managed to get into the top 10 without the NUB. Now imagine if he had that also. He might be close to 1 million MPR. But he did make a recent character into a Top 10 one.

I think that sums my difficulty with it. If a new player had to fight like we did in the early months and saw THOSE rewards increased-then cool idea. But they get great rewards then multiplied.

AdminJonathan July 6 2005 5:32 PM EDT

the NUB takes these into account, among other things

QBsutekh137 July 6 2005 5:38 PM EDT

To sum up Ranger's point, new folks with the NUB are in much "richer" CB environment than the way the game was when it started. Larger tattoos, bigger weapons, established economy, etc.

The question would be, is that really an advantage for the NUB folks? And if so, how much time should be shaved off the NUB to account for that ethereal difference?

GL, you completely lost me with your most recent post on this thread. Can you explain it with more examples? Assume you are talking to a blithering idiot, i.e. talking to Chet. *smile*

QBRanger July 6 2005 5:38 PM EDT

Well then cool idea. ill be glad to see how it is with the new breed of noobs.

Undertow July 6 2005 5:43 PM EDT

GL says:

If ranger has 400k mpr, and I've never played before, then:

I start. Yay, i have a NUB!

Under GL's plan, I'd have that NUB until 400k MPR, whether it took me a day or that account was passed from generation to generation.

Once you reach 400k mpr, it's over. And Ranger might be 1.5 mil MPR, or well.

His point is that this would make up for the "I didn't know the game existed, why am I penalized from reaching the top" arguement. You get that NUB till you reach where you'd be if you had been playing... kind of....

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] July 6 2005 6:13 PM EDT

Disclaimer: merely angrier and just as long version of Almuric's post. See above.

What is sooooo very hard to understand about this? It means time is not a factor. For those of you who honestly think "investment" of time means something other than "I have been having fun for 7 months", sorry, you will never understand. (Though you could take a stab at the mental exercise by thinking, "If the NUB did not exist, my 7 month headstart would guarantee that, so long as I play, I win! Yea for me and unfair advantages of time!".)

To the rest: the NUB means that no matter how much of a headstart I have, if you seriously play to win you have a _chance_ of catching me. Obviously, the NUB is no guarantee (merely a chance), or we would have more than maybe 4 cases to point to of New Users who: actually learn the game, focus their strat early, play enough to take advantage of the NUB, get out of NP early, get excellent advice, and join a good clan early enough to enjoy significant reward bonuses on top of the NUB.

If the 'newbie bonus' (See Jon, above) has been in effect since Jan. 8, there only exists two groups: 1. people who started the first week and 2. everybody else, who had bonus enough to catch up to 1. (see Jon's note on what the NUB accounts for)

Who are these hoards of people who want to be reset if only to get the NUB? The only thing the NUB changes is time. What were you doing with your time? Certainly you were not playing like Avoid and I. Ranger has managed to hire and fire the same 2 minions several (yes, several) times over and keep up his MPR. Chet isn't playing 24/7. BCS has gone through a revision or two, and hasn't lost much ground. Almuric is catching up, it seems. CT managed to create 3 Top 10 characters in the last 7 months. What *were* you doing?

And to you, that group that desperately wants to start over -- you want to take the "time equalizer" and turn it into an advantage of knowledge? You now know what you "would have done" and how the bonus works, so you want to take what you've learned during your play and start over as if you were in fact a New User? You aren't. (Don't let anyone ever tell you that if you work hard enough, you can be anything you want! No matter how hard I try, I'll never be the first woman to circumnavigate the Earth.) And you never will be. If you wasted the first 2/4/6 months you were playing, tough. There are plenty of New Users currently receiving bonus doing likewise in New Players right now. They are not going to get to the top by other than attrition, and neither will you.

After the bonus, yes, the game is a matter of attrition. Bartlett loses to three characters in this game: not SNK, not Steve, not Gnu, not Chuckles, not Velo(?), not Markxe, not Moser (my apologies to those of you I've forgotten). Bartlett used to be on as many as 9 favorite lists at a time. By virtue of attrition (user's life intervenes, user gets bored, user gets greedy) alone, that's down to three. THUS: the NUB serves only to negate my "headstart", which is entirely fair, and after that the game goes back to 'who can click the most for the longest'.

That said, and to the point of the thread, the only problem I see is the tattoo growth. If the tattoos can be upped "artificially", compared to character growth, then there is an (actual) unfair advantage there. But, all things considered, it's not much of a problem.

It means someone is taking advantage of someone else's NUB by getting a New User to increase his tattoo -- shame on you. Or New Users get tattoos right away and figure out how to get others to make it bigger than they can alone -- not many of those so far. (Would be less, but we keep posting and posting and posting so as to make it so much more obvious that it could be done.) Anyone, at any time subject to market availability, can purchase a tattoo that is 'too big' for them anyway.

New Users, we love you! I, for one, will not be waving my car keys in your face just because I'm old enough to drive and you aren't! (And, here's a hint, stop agreeing that your NUB should be less than it is. Anything less and you just get an express route to a better view of Olympus; you'll still be looking up.)

Special J July 6 2005 6:23 PM EDT

Bast wins, hands down. If this does not set you down the correct path, then are too hard set in your ways, go make your own idea into a game.

Find something new to whine about, this would limit out the choices of ELBs, SMTOE, FS/WTB forum, tattoos and the FS/WTB forum's removal.

Move on, or move out. It grew old last week.

QBsutekh137 July 6 2005 6:53 PM EDT

Yes, Bast's post is well-written and logical. Not sure what it has to do with Almuric's post (I saw his as being a sideways stab at Ranger), and when it comes to the tattoo part (the point of Ranger's OP), she agrees that tattoo growth _could_ become an issue (as Jonathan himself has).

Am I the only one who sees Bast's point through Slashdot eyes and wants to give it a +1 Insightful and -1 Off-topic all at the same time? *smile*

QBsutekh137 July 6 2005 6:54 PM EDT

Sorry, I had a question for you mrwuss:

What exactly does Bast "win"? I didn't know there were prizes! I'll try harder, I promise! *grin*

Special J July 6 2005 7:02 PM EDT

She wins a bumper sticker that says :

" I wear skirts "

want one Chet? I'm sure they won't mind whipping up another just for you ;)

Any choice of colors you would like?

QBsutekh137 July 6 2005 7:04 PM EDT

And if that is what you are saying, GL (Undertow's explanation), then I disagree with you. *smile* The NUB shouldn't be seen as a retroactive "wake-up call". If you didn't care enough to strive before, you shouldn't care now that new folks are getting sweet, sweet bonuses. *smile* I think your argument is sort of like, "I fought semi-hard to reach 70%, and now I'm mad that NUBs that fight ALL-hard are at 75%."

Please tell me that's not what you're saying? *smile*

QBsutekh137 July 6 2005 7:08 PM EDT

mrwuss, I would like paisley, if I may.

[EG] Almuric July 6 2005 8:27 PM EDT

Nothing that I said was meant as a personal attack on Ranger. I just want to be clear on that.

A couple of people have contacted me in CM about the QuarterBlender thing. I wasn't thinking of Ranger when I said this, it was just something that occurred to me as I was composing my post. I would guess its origin is the fact that my subconscious saw "QBRanger" as I was writing and said "Hey, it's a new quarter. Time for the next QB." No malice was intended. And I sure didn't mean it as "Let's get rid of the old QB." That's not how it works, anyway.

(BTW, it's very funny to me that the purple QB is 'loser-font'. Is it purple in other color schemes?)

QBsutekh137 July 6 2005 9:32 PM EDT

Purple for me, and I never, ever thought you were jabbing at the QB issue. I know your strength of character a little better than that, Al. *smile*

When I said "sideways stab", I meant it seemed like a personal response to a generic issue. I say that because I know whence I speak. Todd and spydah are both great guys and excellent tacticians. But on CB1 in the heat of RedDwarf vs. Spid (make that RedDwarf being eviscerated by Spid), I would be damned if I would admit that in public. I am not proud of that.

For just a split-second when I read your post, I thought "clash of the titans" since you are a definite competitor at the top. Sorry that I was projecting my own past upon you, and I hope you didn't take too much offense.

Todd July 6 2005 11:58 PM EDT

Part of me wishes I still had some passion for this game.

/me winks at Chet

btw... did you know that "Chet" is just a simple(and all too often, in my case) typo away from "Cher" :)

QBsutekh137 July 7 2005 12:32 AM EDT

Todd, as do I, which is why I am pretty sure I was projecting on Al. *smile*

You can figure out where Chet comes from by not trying all that hard. *smile* And no, it's not Chet Atkins. *grin*

maulaxe July 7 2005 1:52 AM EDT

has anyone ever made headway into figuring out exactly how tattoos grow? more specifically, how would a char having NUB affect the growth of a tat?

what I was wondering was about the magical extra 20% that dd familiars train. once we all managed (somewhat) to agree about the "fair"ness of the NUB, we can come back to the possible imbalances that are tat related.

my finely dulled intuition tells me that the extra xp that dd familiars train (in relation to what a regular minion training in the same ratio would earn) is the main suspect for disturbing the still, *cough* calm, *double cough* waters that is CB. making waves. rocking the boat. (70+ replies so so far, and this is just one thread)

so my question is how does the NUB affect tat leveling?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 7 2005 2:16 AM EDT

:) Morning everyone!

"The NUB shouldn't be seen as a retroactive "wake-up call". If you didn't care enough to strive before, you shouldn't care now that new folks are getting sweet, sweet bonuses."

But that's exatly what Jon want's if to be Chet...

"because the nub is meant to help new players catch up to people who have been playing since Jan 1, without restarting"

It will never help the folks who didn't care enough to strive (Or maybe had to chence strats due to now removed overpowered items.. :P), whether they have the NUB, or were never allowed it.

But, this is getting far off topic, the exuistance of the NUB isn't the focus of this thread, but the fact it can be exploited to create Uber Tat's!


Quark July 7 2005 2:46 PM EDT

So does Jon's virtual PR change fix Uber tattoo creation? Since the virtual PR will rise quickly, the rewards will diminish even with the NUB.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001PXr">NUB and tattoos</a>