For the sake of Balance (in General)

Will [Retired] July 12 2005 8:12 AM EDT

Just a thought...
You have to invest separately in AS, GA, GS or Haste to get an effect, wheras you only have to invest once in DM to get an effect that nerfs all of them. It also has much better value for exp than all those Defensive Enchantments (you get a higher level for a similar amount of exp), how is this fair?

Nixon Jibfest July 12 2005 8:38 AM EDT

Using that argument, AMF isn't fair either.

Stephen Young July 12 2005 8:47 AM EDT

I agree that DM is unbalanced, and I have a much more thorough explanation to back my opinion in this thread.

Jon, I implore you to change DM. Or, to allow EDs to stack prior to DM affecting them.

Will [Retired] July 12 2005 8:48 AM EDT

very true, but AMF is pretty balanced with the spells it nerfs, you have to invest the same amount of exp as the spell to get nerfage...

also, AMF or EC only work on a specific opponent, DM works on enchantments which are used by all. it is the bane of the multi-minion team because for them to have a reasonable MPR/Score ratio they need to use enchantments. a TTTT or MMMM strat (extreme examples) wouldn't work without them.

QBJohnnywas July 12 2005 8:51 AM EDT

DM could be seen as overpowered but unless you're clever with your xp you can't use AMF or EC. The lack of AMF on a DM team leaves some of them very vulnerable to single mages or tanks. A large DM is a lot of xp going to waste in those circumstances so I would say there is some balance involved.

QBJohnnywas July 12 2005 8:54 AM EDT

re: single tanks... obviously amf has nothing to do with them... blame the sunshine in London and me stuck indoors.... my point was that DM is useless against teams that don't rely on defensive enchantments....

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 12 2005 8:55 AM EDT

DM has an effect of 60% it's level. When facing a single ED, both being the same level, the ED has more effect than DM. The ED will be reduced to 40% of it's level, with an effect based from this.

So for equal DM versus ED, the ED will still have at least some effect.

DM reduces this smaller effect when facing multiple ED's, as it works at full power versus all of them.

It get's more cost effective the more ED s it faces.

I originally thought DM was overpowered by working at it's full effect versus every ED, but I don't think that's quite true.

Unless the DM effect is bumped from 60% (appologies if I've got the percent wrong..), it should effect *all* ED s it faces at it's full value.

What I do think should be tweaked is when DM faces stacked ED s of the same enchantment.

DM should work from the stacked total, not the individual values. But it should work at full effiviency versus different ED s.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 12 2005 8:56 AM EDT

VK beat me too it...

And I thought I actually read the thread... >_<


QBJohnnywas July 12 2005 8:58 AM EDT

Also in terms of balance, if you're using DM and not trying to be clever with a large AMF you're leaving yourself open to Decay as well. There are balances in place but it is still annoying to see a single enchantment 'fizzle' so many smaller enchantments at once....

Stephen Young July 12 2005 9:10 AM EDT

DM's greatest prey is AS. The Multi-minion penalty makes DM easily fizzle AS. I have another suggestion. Make DM affect AS prior to the muti-minion penalty, THEN apply the penalty.

Carnt Spall July 12 2005 9:11 AM EDT

Bah I was about to suggest that Vampire King, good idea.
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