FB vs. AMF (in General)

spydah August 13 2005 9:54 AM EDT

So, just for fun I fought BCS. his 950k FB vs. my 711k AMF. This is not meant in any way as a whine whine my amf s0x0r, it is just informational and interesting. So hush :p

Post-battle stats
Minion  EXP  HP  ST  DX  AC  Damage Inflicted  Ammo
I'm rubber, you're glue11,360-64,285201850 / 77,417
Spid11,354-17,002427,734582,612170 / 264,850
SpidBlack Card Situation
Spid cast Dispel Magic on all enemy Minions (40,000)
I'm rubber, you're glue cast Antimagic Field on Tiny's familiar (0.46)
I'm rubber, you're glue cast Antimagic Field on Tiny (0.39)
I'm rubber, you're glue's Guardian Angel fizzles under Dispel Magic
Spid's Vampiric Aura fizzles under Dispel Magic
Tiny cast Dispel Magic on all enemy Minions (240,554)
Tiny's Protection fizzles under Dispel Magic
Ranged Combat
Tiny's familiar takes damage from his own Fireball (77417)!
Tiny's familiar's Fireball hit I'm rubber, you're glue [64305], Spid [42851]
Tiny takes damage from his own Fireball (82307)!
Tiny's Fireball hit Spid [90409]
R.I.P. I'm rubber, you're glue
Tiny's familiar takes damage from his own Fireball (88477)!
Tiny's familiar's Fireball hit Spid [156835]
Tiny takes damage from his own Fireball (94066)!
Tiny's Fireball hit Spid [289414]
Tiny cries "She Steal Yer Lunch Box?!"
R.I.P. Spid



QBRanger August 13 2005 9:59 AM EDT

I think this just goes to show how truely powerful fireball is.

Not only does it damage every minion in a party, BUT also ramps up when minions start to die.

You would die even if your AMF was the same as his FB as you have no missile attack and basically just sit there letting him roast you like a chicken while you wait to use your melee weapon.

spydah August 13 2005 11:09 AM EDT

Yes, I am not posting about how to win or anything, the idea was to die. I was just posting some high FB/AMF numbers for a PSA.

I have used a very large ELB vs. BCS before, to no avail. In fact, without ranged, my fight list changed by ~ 2 people, which I am fine with. So, I'll save cash for other things for a bit and see how it goes, heck, Spid in CB1 used no ranged forever ;)


Lumpy Koala August 13 2005 11:56 AM EDT

well FB having their damage multiplied by infinity is a known issue :)

I am just curious how much is Spid's fight reward on average from fighting low without using ranged

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 13 2005 12:15 PM EDT


Some more numbers...

A 950K FB would do 475K damage to a single target (before reduction...)

A level 950K AMF would be needed to achieve a 50% damage reduction.

As shown from levels given in the OP an AMF 75% the Size of the target DD spell gives a 39% reduction.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 13 2005 4:05 PM EDT


"Really, what the debate.

Just look at Chet and Bast. Large AMF's. Case closed. Please."


Although over 50% of people think FB is fine, I said it would take someone actually showing them before people would come round...

Karmic Mishap [Soup Ream] August 14 2005 3:19 AM EDT

It's always seemed that FB was an almost-guaranteed win against smaller parties. The main way to really counteract its freakish and irregular amounts of damage is to have at least one meaty wall, preferably with a LOT of AC and a MgS. With this, a gigantic AMF, etc... maybe you stand a chance... What a lame solution, huh?

The3Stooges August 14 2005 4:19 AM EDT

just a question why dont you do a test against a char that dosent have 950k FB and i bet you'll destroy them with your AMF and if you used a bow not only would you return alot of the damage BCS does you'll do damage with a weapon + with a decent amount of DX you'll do multiple hits so its not unfair to have FB or even an advantage :P

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 14 2005 6:26 AM EDT


I'll bet if spid attacked someone 1/2 his Score he'd win....

It's not about who Spid can defeat, but what his 711K AMF does.

"Tiny's Fireball hit Spid [289414]"

Before AMF, that hit did around 474,449. (Which is slightly over 1/2 level). But for AMF to manage that damage, it has to be equal, if not more (equal only gets 50% reduction) than the DD level.

Anyone got an AMF of 950k?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 14 2005 6:31 AM EDT

Oh, it also sucks that a MgS, while being great for reducing magic damage with it's minimum 1% per plus, but it's far too harsh restrictions can really only be used by a 'Wall' type minion.

Making Walls necessary for higher level play...

bartjan August 14 2005 6:41 AM EDT

Why can MgS only be used by walls?

Xiaz on Hiatus August 14 2005 6:45 AM EDT

Walls are the biggest waste of a minion...
Train HP and takes up a big slab of NW from armour? No thanks.

Chocolate Thunder August 14 2005 7:54 AM EDT

Fireballs hurt? Are you sure? ;)

Tiny's familiar takes damage from his own Fireball (62517)!
Tiny's familiar's Fireball hit Mama Gibbs [27610], The Godfather of Harlem [3091], Reverend Rufus [10969]
Tiny takes damage from his own Fireball (65907)!
Tiny's Fireball hit The Godfather of Harlem [5154], Reverend Rufus [9618]

[T]Vestax August 14 2005 8:12 AM EDT

That's because 3 minions and a ToE is way more effective against a FB then AMF at or near it's level with only 2 minions. And let's not forget you have a MgS AND a AMF as well.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 14 2005 8:45 AM EDT

"Why can MgS only be used by walls?"

No DD, ED or EO. So no mage or enchanter.

No ToA or Gi. So no UC Tank.

All thats left is a non ToA tank, and we know the feeling on those. They are just smaller walls with weapons...

Or a Wall.

It's far too restrictive.

QBsutekh137 August 14 2005 1:51 PM EDT

I agree with GL 100%. Unless you are focusing on mage-busting only, trying to make an MgS-bearing minion much of a tank is futile. He will _always_ be more than a wall than a tank. Putting weapons on a minion does not mean he is going to do anything particularly damaging with them, and with the MgS nullifying all DD, the MgS minion is not going to do any serious damage except, as I said, to mages.

bartjan August 14 2005 2:16 PM EDT

Mmm, so my tank is suddenly no longer called a tank, but a wall instead? Then please tell me why I happen to have my wall as the last minion in line? ;)

QBsutekh137 August 14 2005 2:56 PM EDT

I don't know, bart. Why don't you tell us how well your "tank" fares against ToA minions? Technically, yes, he is a tank. The only reason he is last in line is that he has nothing to protect. He is a self-contained Wall. I bet most of the folks on your fight list are mages?

bartjan August 14 2005 5:01 PM EDT

Indeed. Mostly mages. But that's just because many characters around my level are that. Mostly mages. I only could find 'I Win' as a ToA user. I lose from him mostly because his DM nerfs my AS too much. Am working on my HP, but that takes time. I do more damage to him than he does to me, but it takes too long to cut through his wall. I don't think his ToA scares me too much. Maybe if there were other ToAs to compare with?

Undertow August 14 2005 5:32 PM EDT

'Really, what the debate.

Just look at Chet and Bast. Large AMF's. Case closed. Please.'

Not Chet, me. :D

And just wait, once I get some USD rolling with this job, it'll all come together.

Now if only you could just pay USD to increase the size of your tattoo....

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 14 2005 6:14 PM EDT

;) Bart, you're about 100K score behind Spid, but do you think you'd have a hope of hitting him with his 580K Dex?

With 222.5K Dex, I'm sure you'd only get one dex based attack, which would miss, and Spid would have 2 in return.

Maybe your Morg's pth is greater than his DB s though...

Still you might as well just drop the Dex on your tank, plow it into his HP, make him a wall and use your pth to hit people. Oh, leave your dex at a couple of hundred, just until you start getting doubles on mages/enchanters.


spydah August 15 2005 12:03 AM EDT

DBs = +50, in case you really wanted to know :p


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 15 2005 5:35 AM EDT

Bart, your Morg isn't higher than +50 is it? In that case, you have no chance at all of hitting Spid.

bartjan August 15 2005 5:56 AM EDT

Who said I was aiming for Spid?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 15 2005 6:05 AM EDT


Just finding you another ToA user to compare with.
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