Possible Aternative for NUB (in General)


Sir Leon [Soup Ream] August 20 2005 1:10 PM EDT

A few weeks ago i came up with this idea but never did anything about it. I have decided to post b/c ive seen so many complaints about the NUB and to see what CB thinks

IDEA---Completly getting rid of the NUB and replacing it with a different limit cap on BA
EXAMPLE---New cap for incoming new players COULD get 300 starting ba. (Ba will still respawn at the same rate). As time progresses the cap limit will drop down until reaching 160.
HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT FROM THE NUB----Well it simply makes them earn there rewards instead of just getting it. They have to be more dedicated and leads them having more respect for what they earn.

This is just an idea PLEASE dont flush this thread with insults.
I want as many people in CB to post at least saying yes or no to the idea.

So critics criticize this...BUT when you do try to put a possible alternative to improve what you have criticized. i want to improve this idea and make it work if at all possible. I know this is hard to make work but i think with all of our input it should. I dont want this to be my idea but more like Our idea. Everyone is complaining about the NUB so why dont we ALL try to come up with something different.

please voice your opinion and dont crumble this idea!!!!

AdminShade August 20 2005 1:21 PM EDT

They don't have to be more dedicated as their BA will replenish up to that 300, they will have more free time instead.

onlyyouknow August 20 2005 1:21 PM EDT

I think this is a good idea. At least the cost of BA for newbies will remain low and they can also decide what to do with their BA.

Sir Leon [Soup Ream] August 20 2005 1:23 PM EDT

Yea that is true shade....not a way to really fix that...just one of those flaws :-(

[SoM]CupofJoe [Peoples Bank of Carnage] August 20 2005 1:23 PM EDT

I think your heading in the right direction for those that want to abolish the NUB
Remember the NUB was created to give a chance to the players just starting out to reach the top.
The only downfall that I see to your suggestion is that adjusting the cap will not benefit (or bonus if you will) the new players who do log in all the time and burn there BA.

If the BA refresh rate was increased for new players in the way that you described, it would accommodate the way I believe you are looking for. Making players earn there spot.
The only downfall to adding BA to the refresh rate that I see would be the increase in hits that the server will get.
But I think that as long as new players have any bonus over older players someone will complain, leaving any attempts at adjusting a bonus somewhat futile.

BMWheatley August 20 2005 1:42 PM EDT

How about making the new players get more BA per 10 minutes instead. Like having them start out with 15 BA per 10 minutes with the same 160 BA cap. ??

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 20 2005 1:52 PM EDT

Get rid of the NUB and the Top Ten penalty exemption.

Make it increasingly harder to stay at the top.

Sir Leon [Soup Ream] August 20 2005 1:55 PM EDT

Thats great suggestions [SoM]CupofJoe and BMW, see this is how i intended this thread to go...More positive than negatives...Hope this idea can evolve and make somthing work :-)

Staind2b August 20 2005 2:16 PM EDT

I think increasing the BA cap to 220, and also increasing the BA per 10 minutes to 15 should be better for new players. Even though the cap will be larger, the time that it takes for the BA to reach 220 will be pretty much the same as it is now; 2 hours and 45 minutes (new idea) compared to 2 hours and 30 minutes (what's in place).
As time goes on the regen rate, and BA cap will return to what it is now. This will allow the new players to get some sort of advantage, but at the same time work to get to the top.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] August 20 2005 2:31 PM EDT

In general I think upping the BA cap for new players is a good idea, however I do not think it properly replaces the NUB. I think a combination of a larger BA cap and more BA per 10mins could do that however. Again, as Leon suggests, this would make a new player earn his bonus by spending BA which I think conceptially is a good idea. Seems like the NUB just hands them all the need without much effort. A change like this would require more effort for a new player to reach the top and sort of help to keep the serious new players advantage if they seriously want to be a top player, without handing it to them on a silver platter. Overall I like the concept, might need some tweaking to get the combination of BA cap and increased BA per 10 mins to apporximate the current NUB.

Grant August 20 2005 2:33 PM EDT

I see Sir Leon's idea not working for 2 reasons.

The first reason I see Sir Leon's idea not working is that the BA generation is supposed to get more convienient the longer you're here.
(Read: this idea runs counter to Jon's logic.)
New users have a bonus, but they also have a relitively lower cap (because of their quicker regeneration rate).
Also, because they are lower power, it takes MORE clicking to get the same result (less rewards = less power).

Now, if a new user avoids blunders and works assiduously, they can actually overcome these while still in the NUB, but that's by design. This is the second reason I see this idea not working: Jon wanted to build in a method to avoid Spid-type dominance in CB2.

The NUB is this built in barbarians-at-the-gate process that keeps old timers from dominating simply because they're old timers.

Everyone already knows the abpve, but I said it for a purpose: To underline that the NUB's effects are important and by design, and the NUB cannot be weakened without damaging CB.

You want to weaken the NUB effect. You reveal this when you say you want new players to work harder to get the results they get. (Work harder + get same results = weaken effect). That's not a real solution, because Jon wants barbarians at the gate and not Captain Cruch.

I would prefer that we have a "start completely over" option 1x per year or so for us old-time supporters who don't want to engage in subterfuge, so we could take turns being barbarians.

(non-supporters who stay away long enough lose their acounts, hence, they don't have this problem.)

And yes, Jon has already nixed this idea, because it's open to abuse. :)

[T]Vestax August 20 2005 2:54 PM EDT

When originally confronted with this idea in chat I explained that raising the cap alone would be just a major NUB nerf. With all other in-game means of reaching the top quickly (oversized tattoos and renting oversized weapons) removed I thought this idea was more suited for CB1, not CB2. Giving them more free BA overall with a cap however seems a bit more balanced.

However, all it really solves is your Battles as Challenger to MPR ratio.

From Jon's perspective this is a bad idea in that it generates more bandwidth from more and more people clicking. This means your going to have to pay Jon enough for a substantial server upgrade if you really want this option.

From the new player's perspective It will eventually hamper them since it will get harder and harder to find conscience opponents with which to fight. It will eventually be a battle of who can click the fastest. Sooner or later the new players will start to lose all that free BA you handed them or reap lower rewards on average as they widen their fightlist.

From the clan fighter's perspective it will result in bloated cp from new players making vet's an unwanted commodity.

From the camper's perspective, experience in camping goes out the window. New players will grab up all the rare items and either keep them or sell them off and have amazing NW on small characters. Unless the buy one a character from someone selling out.

(I didn't mean to do this at all. I just started writing the pros and cons and it just turned out this way. I'm not trying to flame your idea Leon, I'm just trying to see where this is heading.)

As for how do you tweak this even if you ignore the above, the equation is rather simple and is much like the one Jon uses already. The % increase in cap and free BA times the NUB length = The total time CB has been on.

Special J August 20 2005 3:40 PM EDT

The NUB is not hurting you.

It is not being changed.

Grant August 20 2005 4:50 PM EDT

Mrwuss's response is almost a haiku:

(Slightly rephrased)

When it does not hurt,
let the new user bonus,
like sleeping dogs, lie.

Sorry, it's just that everyone else's response was so long that something short was perhaps too refreshing. :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 20 2005 5:42 PM EDT

Scrap the N. U. B.
Give the top decreased rewards
Level field for all.

;)

Special J August 20 2005 6:43 PM EDT

Give the top decreased rewards?

Ask Ranger about his rewards.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] August 20 2005 7:22 PM EDT

he had about the same rewards as i and i was 200k MPR under him....=?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 20 2005 7:38 PM EDT

*Shrug*

I can't think of one other RPG, of any type, that doesn't penalise you for fighting people weaker than yourself.

Grim Reaper August 20 2005 7:46 PM EDT

runescape doesn't penalize :)

All you do is level based on the dmg you do.

Grim Reaper August 20 2005 7:50 PM EDT

Ok the cap might be at 10% of toe level against regular dmg and half against backfire according to:
halved endurance's resistance to AMF backfire

I have to do some more testing.

Grim Reaper August 20 2005 7:50 PM EDT

Wrong post....


But since I'm here I think there should just be more ba in the refresh rate.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 20 2005 7:52 PM EDT

Ah.. Didn't know that..

:)

OK, there are only two games that don't penalise for fighting weaker, easier opponents!

:)

QBsutekh137 August 20 2005 11:42 PM EDT

I proposed this a while back on one of my Sunday musings. If you care to esearch for it, look for a thread with a title something akin to: "What the New User Bonus Should Be". I am far to lazy to look it up and link to it, sorry.

I said keep the NUB _exactly_ as it is in terms of possible gained rewards, but make the bonus be in terms of more BA to burn instead of just augmenting existing rewards. More BA, same rewards, instead of same BA, greater rewards. I wasn't against the idea of the NUB, I just thought the new player should have to make up for lost time by _actually_ making up for lost time with lots and lots of clicking.

Jonathan said he wasn't interested. I think his reasoning was sound, whatever it was. Like I said, find the thread.

I think it is a great idea. I also don't think it is going to happen. Que sera sera.

QBsutekh137 August 20 2005 11:45 PM EDT

OK, in an effort to be slightly less lazy:

Click Here

...to see the thread of which I speak.

[T]Vestax August 21 2005 12:19 AM EDT

Yeah, I remember those days. That was back when me and this Chet guy use to think alike. :) Now of course I've come to the belief that NUB-like increases in BA is a very bad idea. We never did solve that clan fighting issue I think.

Honestly, I can't think of any substitute to the NUB now that doesn't break a lot of stuff. However, this partly has to do with the fact that Jon has been doing his best to make sure the NUB is the only way to progress rapidly. He's been building the game around it leaving it the only thing he won't touch. If there is a balance issue and the NUB is involved, Jon will tweak around the bush.

The only idea I see left with a chance of survival is a MPR or PR based bonus. Yet, I think Jon is against it. I'm not really siding with anyone or anything at the moment. I've just decided to say only what I have observed.

QBsutekh137 August 21 2005 12:26 AM EDT

Yeah, clan issue is tough, but I thought one solution would be that it would kinda force people to heavily recruit new players. *smile* More community, more comraderie? Clans are retarded, so I am not going to let them be a reason against my idea. My idea rocks because it is mine. Everyone knows that.

Whatever happened to my 24-hour lump sum BA allocation idea? Now THAT idea truly rocked. Yes indeed.

[T]Vestax August 21 2005 12:34 AM EDT

I ate it.

Sir Leon [Soup Ream] August 21 2005 12:42 AM EDT

i guess this idea just truly sucked... :((

[T]Vestax August 21 2005 12:56 AM EDT

Don't get yourself down Sir Leon. It wasn't that bad at all. I think next time all of us should start by identifying a problem. Neither your's, mine, or Suke's idea were really aimed at solving anything but 'battles as challenger'.

There are people who would point to the preference given exclusively to new players as a problem. Yet, that is still something to be argued over for a couple more months I think.

QBsutekh137 August 21 2005 1:13 AM EDT

I just had a question...what if a new player comes in and spends 100 bucks on a Top Ten MPR character? Does the NUB still apply as they are fighting with that new, already-high character? I probably read something about this previously, but damned if I can remember...?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 21 2005 1:23 AM EDT

nope, they lose the NUB

Karmic Mishap [Soup Ream] August 21 2005 1:24 AM EDT

Nope... apparently the NUB is, in Spacewoman's words, "off like a prom dress" the moment a character is transferred to you. And good thing, too!

[SoM]CupofJoe [Peoples Bank of Carnage] August 21 2005 8:23 AM EDT

I'm definately not saying that I would do this nor condone anyone who does, but wouldn't it be funny if all the NUB haters started transferring base level guys to the players with NUBs. It would be like a CB civil war. lol

QBsutekh137 August 21 2005 11:26 AM EDT

Well, does _any_ character transfer nullify the NUB, or is it merely based on the characters "born on" date? Otherwise, transferring base characters is a fantastic idea...lol

Ilovehellokitty August 21 2005 12:58 PM EDT

the 2 guys posted before me are desperated and mean. Why on earth would you want to do that to new players?

QBsutekh137 August 21 2005 1:23 PM EDT

Relax. Are you familiar with the term "tongue-in-cheek"? I would have thought my "lol" meant something. You evidently don't know me very well if you think I am "out to get" new players. If such a thing were even possible, Jonathan would close that loophole in a second anyway.

Special J August 21 2005 1:32 PM EDT

Karmic Mishap,

go back and read the post, she still has her nub.


Transfering characters in the attempt to harm another player would end up getting you removed from the game, we have no need to let jerks ruin the fun of others.

QBsutekh137 August 21 2005 5:28 PM EDT

mrwuss, I am more interested in what the real rule is here, and how the system works, not administrative extrapolation.

What happens when a character is transferred to someone in the NUB? Folks seem pretty quick to jump to the defense of the new players, but let's see how fair it is if new player after new player were to keep handing a character down to keep it in perpetual NUB. I am sure there is already a system in place against such an occurrence, but I am waiting for someone to point me to the post.

[SoM]CupofJoe [Peoples Bank of Carnage] August 21 2005 5:36 PM EDT

I was just thinking out loud and not serious, hence the lol and the, "not saying that I would do this nor condone anyone who does."

So I'd appreciate it if people didn't read into my posts making me mean spirited, because that simply is not the case.

...But it would be something...lol

Ilovehellokitty August 21 2005 6:00 PM EDT

I am really sorry for misunderstanding you two. Would you forgive me, please?

_(-.-)/
.(___)..
-Ai Luv U-
Proud member of The Knight Watch

[SoM]CupofJoe [Peoples Bank of Carnage] August 21 2005 6:02 PM EDT

Ilovehellokitty,
All is forgiven. I really am nice and don't wish any harm to come to anyone :)

QBsutekh137 August 21 2005 6:20 PM EDT

Kitty, no harm in sticking up for the new players. No shame! *smile*

Special J August 21 2005 6:26 PM EDT

Player A has a NUB.
Player B does not.

Player B sends Player A, a character.

When Player A uses that character it does not get NUB bonuses, but Player A continues to pay NUB prices for BA. (much higher than normal).

There, explained.

You are only given NUB bonuses on characters which you create while you have your NUB.

Jerk August 21 2005 6:33 PM EDT

Well what about if:

Player A has NUB
Player B has 2 days left on NUB

If Player B xfers character to Player A would Player A still get the NUB since the xferred character was still getting the bonus while attacking for Player B???

[SoM]CupofJoe [Peoples Bank of Carnage] August 21 2005 6:36 PM EDT

What happens if player A, who now has and used Player B's non NUBed character, reverts to her original character which had/has the NUB? I guess my question, for clarification, is does the NUBed character remain NUBed regardless of character transfers?

I think I am the first person to use the word NUBed, also.

Patent pending on the word NUBed

QBsutekh137 August 21 2005 6:38 PM EDT

I prefer NUBed to NUB'd, which is what I almost used.

See, we are making progress here. Excellent! *grin*

Jerk August 21 2005 6:41 PM EDT

Well what I was getting at is my NUB is getting close to coming to a close and was kinda curious if I sold him to a truly new player that had another 3 months of 140% + NUB would he still get to marinate in the NUB since he is getting it now? If so I could sell him to someone and then watch him rape the top 3 in another month. Especially if he were to be in a clan that stayed in top 5.

P.S. No I am not planning to do this but I am curious if any measures have been taken to keep this sort of continual NUBism from happening?

[SoM]CupofJoe [Peoples Bank of Carnage] August 21 2005 6:42 PM EDT

Well I'll be RaijinBull NUBism. That is awesome

It's simply a NUBtastic day isn't it?

Special J August 21 2005 6:46 PM EDT

You ONLY get nub bonuses on characters YOU create.

There, as clear as it can be.

Jerk August 21 2005 6:47 PM EDT

o ok then just wandering is all :)

QBsutekh137 August 21 2005 7:07 PM EDT

Thank you for the answer, mrwuss.

Bull3t F4c3 August 21 2005 8:14 PM EDT

I just think that the reason for the NUB is so players dont quit because they are bored. the game does get rather boring, when u can train anything and are making 1-2 exp per fight. it takes a long time. Therefore NUB was put in place. With the NUB people make way more exp then regualar players and catch up quickly. I was thinking along the lines of stopping a person's NUB when they got out of "nubbyhood"--> this being a certain amount of PR, MPR, score, or nw of combo therof...
EXAMPLE: my friend on this game (no named mentioned) started mid july and caught up to me already. I may be a newb by looking at my ugly strat but im 220k mpr and i dont consider that newbish. If he is the same mpr as me, why should he get NUB and not me...?

AdminJonathan August 21 2005 9:29 PM EDT

You get NUB on any character created before the end of your bonus period.

QBsutekh137 August 21 2005 11:21 PM EDT

??? Even transferred? Do you not see this as a (potential) problem?

QBsutekh137 August 21 2005 11:23 PM EDT

Sorry, let me elaborate a bit...

It has been said that the reason we oldies cannot have the NUB (even if we forsake all and start over), is because that would make it too easy for folks to race up, sell out for USD, then leverage the USD to generate another NUB character success, ad infinitum. A very good reason to disallow the NUB to the vets.

But isn't this issue just as compelling?

Shouldn't the NUB be based on character born-on date instead? Or some such?

Special J August 21 2005 11:26 PM EDT

The NUB works as intended, there is no infinite NUB for any player, or any character.


Why is this still the issue?

Vets do not get a NUB because that would defeat the very purpose of the NUB, which is to help someone who joins today reach the top.

QBsutekh137 August 22 2005 1:12 AM EDT

mrwuss, please read what Jonathan said (sorry, I give a bit more creedence to his words than yours):

" You get NUB on any character created before the end of your bonus period."

So, try to follow along with the following scenario --

- I start playing (and I am a new player), and I know of the NUB relatively quickly. I am a thirtysomething guy who just wants to dominate, and I have lots of USD.
- At that time, someone is selling a top character. Like Cougars or Magnus, recently.
- That character I purchase was created "before the end of my bonus period". In fact, it was created before I even started playing. So be it. That is good enough so that I can use that character within the confines of my NUB.
- I run that ALREADY COMPETITIVE TOP LEVEL CHARACTER through my NUB for four months (or however long the thing is).
- (are you getting it yet?)
- I then have a massive MPR character (Cougars was top five when I sold it. Run it through an even moderately-played NUB and it would be number 1, guaranteed).
- I decide, "That's not good enough!" I look over to Fred, my co-worker, and say, "Fred, come play this game". Fred says, "What is in it for me?" I say, "A dozen donuts, just do it, punk!" Fred does it.
- As soon as Fred joins, I transfer my character to him. Fred runs it through _his_ NUB, because he can. The character still has a creation date before his NUB period expires. So, according to Jonathan's words, the NUB still applies.
- When Fred is done, many donuts fatter, I have him transfer the character back to me.
- (seriously, are you not getting this yet?)
- I keep doing this until I am like The Last in CB1. A huge MPR gap so that I can unleash an EC to cripple any tank (yes, even a ToA one), with plenty to spare. If not, hell, I will just run it through another NUB. I have a lot of friends who like donuts down at the plant.

Mrwuss, thanks for telling me there is no problem, but until Jonathan explains how what I just said cannot happen, I will be worried. In fact, I will do my absolute damnedest to arrange it happens just to make sure it gets accounted for.

Special J August 22 2005 1:15 AM EDT

You ONLY get nub bonuses on characters YOU create.

There, as clear as it can be.

Try it out.

Find a new player, send them a character you created, see if the NUB continues on that character.

Then find two players with Nubs, have one send the other a character they created.

See if the nub continues on that character.

Let me know the results.

QBsutekh137 August 22 2005 1:20 AM EDT

I guess I misunderstood, and here's why:

Please read Jonathan's response, and tell me where he says "characters YOU create"? Jonathan rocks the house, but using passive voice on a statement such as his generates ambiguity. If he meant characters created by the new player, he should say so. There is absolutely no reason for this not to be explicitly laid out for all of us. Ambiguity and/or secrecy serve no purpose in a matter such as this, and I was only asking questions for the sake of clarification.

Special J August 22 2005 1:23 AM EDT

Test it out, just test it and stop beating a dead horse.

QBsutekh137 August 22 2005 1:27 AM EDT

No.

/me beats dead horse. Hard. Dead horse parts fly randomly. Gross!

Lumpy Koala August 22 2005 1:45 AM EDT

if spacewoman was telling the truth, that the moment some vet sent her a base char and she can't use her NUB on the char anymore. Then Mr Wuss is correct.

/me buries the poor deformed dead horse

Karmic Mishap [Soup Ream] August 22 2005 1:47 AM EDT

Actually, the reason I missed her last post was because she posted it AS spaceman on accident... she says she still has her NUB, so there's not really any way to get rid of it by force. Buying BA will still cost her a load until it 'naturally' expires. Poor woman.

Lumpy Koala August 22 2005 2:40 AM EDT

I see.. then.. Mr Wuss wasn't correct after all :)

/me resurrects the dead horse for more beating from Sut

AdminJonathan August 22 2005 9:26 AM EDT

Okay, let me try to be a little more accurate.

NUB applies to a user U for a duration D and expires at X = registration(U) + D.

If a character C was created before U registered, U can get the NUB with that character until X - (registration(U) - creation(C)). U can never get NUB after X with any character.

Nothing limits NUB to characters created by U.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 22 2005 9:42 AM EDT

So a New Player can gain a NUB on any character that was created up to 'D' time before their registration, but loses that amount of time from their NUB time on that character.

:)

What's D at the moment? 6 Months?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 22 2005 9:45 AM EDT

And in other words, if a 1st of Jan character was transfer to any New User, if they fought with it, they would get no bonus with it, but if they fought with a character they (for example) created themselves, they would still get the normal NUB.

So no sabotaging new users by transferring 1 PR 1st Jan characters to them.

:)

[T]Vestax August 22 2005 9:47 AM EDT

4 months is the cap GL.

QBsutekh137 August 22 2005 10:36 AM EDT

OK, that makes sense. Sorry to be such a pain, and thank you for the very thorough explanation, Jonathan.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 22 2005 1:37 PM EDT

Thanks Vestax!

So any new users fighting with chracters 4 months before their start date fight without any NUB.

Mikel August 22 2005 10:05 PM EDT

Basically,
Since my nub time was cut in half, I could find a NUB that started right before me, x-fer my character Mikel over and he would get the NUB again until that characters NUB expires, 2 months if I had done this the second my NUB ran out.

Now I already knew I could do that way before my reduced NUB expired. I'm not afraid to Experiment. But the point is why? I busted my tail to get where I am now only to watch several rules get changed and my own NUB taken away, basically, I crucified myself at the expense of losing my NUB. And all of you NUB haters should donate 1 mil to my cause. :P

NO ONE CAN DO WHAT I DID NOW. The NUB is fine the way it is as I've said all along.

[T]Vestax August 23 2005 2:39 AM EDT

Maybe for once they're not talking about you. Everyone has the right to point at me and say the NUB is overpowering if someone like myself can get to the top ten without a loophole, USD, other game cash or items, or an overpowered strat.

We all know how you got there Mikel and a lot of us know the real life expense it would have taken to get where you are. Most people are more concerned about the people _passing_ them. You passed them long ago and I therefore think they have long given up on catching you. So please don't make yourself out to be the center of the world because you aren't.

Besides, being able to do what any other player has done is part of what makes the NUB suppose to work. The NUB is a simple equation based merely on the time CB has been up and running. Therefore, changes in what people can do, since CB has been up and running, upsets the balance of this system. So when you scream out that nobody can do what you did, it becomes rather less comforting then more.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 23 2005 3:46 AM EDT

*Shakes fist at Vestax*

Bah! I'll never catch you.

I started Tal on January 1st. I went FB + DM and it was good. Until Cloaks of Balrog Flame where found out to be a fixed upgrade cost of 100K per point. Then FB was ruined.

I added another minion.

Re-trained

Fired the second minion.

Endurance was broken and didn't work unless you had Protection cast.

I swapped tattoo's because they kept being 'tweaked' and this was before the TA, so it cost...

More changes, and some more re-training.

I had to jig around quite a bit in those firsts months, when the game was new, and things were still being settled. And I'll never be able to catch up. Now, every New User has been gifted the ability to scream past me, without having to put up with the massive changes I had to go through.

Just take a look at last change month compared to the rest...

Why do New Users need a bonus anyway? Shouldn't they have to do the same as me to get into the top ten? Fight for a while to make some cash, then buy an existing top ten character...

QBJohnnywas August 23 2005 4:02 AM EDT

Hey, GL mate , you're only down where you are because of your retrains! You'd be top 10 (if not top) if you'd stuck to one strat all along.

I'm not too far behind Vestax with Jack Crow - who I started in March - with no NUB, no oversized tattoo, no excessive NW or USD - just lots and lots of down-click down-click. It's why I have the world's largest finger you know!

QBJohnnywas August 23 2005 4:46 AM EDT

Apparently the NUB is a major problem.... but is it the problem that everyone thinks it is?

Vestax for instance is hanging around the top ten and has gotten there very quickly but all you have to do is see how often he is on, how many clan points he collects etc to see why - he has a solid strategy and fights very hard. Mikel too - on a lot, fights hard. Took advantage of an in-game loophole with oversized tattoos maybe, but other players at the top have gotten there through other means than fighting alone - camping, equipping a small char with large items, USD. It just took those guys a longer time to build up their chars.

But how many other players have started with the NUB since it's introduction? Is the top ten filled with NUB players - I don't think so. Look further afield than the top ten - try the top fifty. Without exception every player in the fifty has gotten there by fighting A LOT. By being online far more often than they should. By dedication and strategy and hard work. Hard work is hard work, regardless of time spent. Does somebody deserve to be more successful just because they've spent more time working at their trade? Or because they're good at what they do? Just my opinion....

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 23 2005 5:43 AM EDT

I retrained a lot... But I went thorugh some major game changes. I don't think looking back now, anyone would complain that CBFs weren't sickingly overpowered, and ruined any FB strat that was around at the time.

Kudos to those FB guys that stuck with it though.

but even if a massive game change came next month, and forced everybody to re-train. With increased rewards, it's the new users that would whether the change easiest.

I doono, there is just no way I can compete with someone with a NUB. I can't gain more rewards than them even if I fight more than them.

What I should do is get a firend, tell them to read the forums for a while, teach them everything I know about CB, get them to wait until after a change month, then join, and watch them blow past everyone in the game...

That would be fair.

QBJohnnywas August 23 2005 5:55 AM EDT

I can see how it can seem unfair.. But, my view is, this game is about competition. I started CB1 this time last year, when Spid dominated. There was absolutely no way I could reach those levels without some serious commitment to the game, and probably lots of RL cash injection. As it was when CB2 started I had reached a million score after 5 months. So I didn't do too badly - but all the time I was fighting hard, so were the people at the top and so that vanishing point on the horizon was still the same distance away from me that it had been when I started.

Unfair would be if after 9 months of CB2 you couldn't start now and gain a decent foothold on the game. Players with the NUB still have to have the same amount of dedication as the top level players to reach there. There have been sell-outs lately but look at Ranger - he's still on as much as anybody, he's got one of the top MVP placings ALL the time, and although he's dropped in placing on several occasions lately that's because of his own tamperings with his char - not because other people are beating him into the ground.

The likes of you and me GL are unlucky that we didn't wait a little while before signing up for CB2. But I don't think it's unfair that a mechanism is in place that makes things a bit easier for new players.

I think the new supporter item could be a little bit of overkill if you've got the NUB though.....lol....

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 23 2005 6:26 AM EDT

Hah. That's the first thing I'd tell my friend... Use a RoE with your NUB and be a single FB+DM Mage.

He'd pass me in no time... All with no risk.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 23 2005 5:58 PM EDT

Oh, and NUB + RoE + Clan bonus = Overpowered....

Relic August 23 2005 6:16 PM EDT

NUB + RoE + Clan Bonus = Frightening for Old School Players at the Top.

Mikel August 23 2005 9:03 PM EDT

Clan points For the year:
Mikel (241,053)
member of BR since: June 20 2005 2:15 PM EDT

That puts me in the top 50, in 2 months.

I think my strat thru, plan it for the long haul to minimize my need to re-train. I have only done that 3 times.
DM to AMF on Durven, done when I changed to ToA.
ST to Archery on Bronik, done when changed to ToA.
ST/Dex to EC on Norb, done recently to level the playing field of the top ToA Tanks vs me.
I Inked my current Tattoo only once FF to ToA, same as with my previous tattoo, ToJ to FF.

Each of those moves made me stronger, the only one that could've been avoided was Bronik, but I need my Archery to get to 1.0 to maximize it, which I'm still trying to get to.

SaintMichael August 24 2005 1:07 AM EDT

I see no difference in principal

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 24 2005 3:32 AM EDT

"NUB + RoE + Clan Bonus = Frightening for Old School Players at the Top."

*sigh*

NUB + RoE + Clan Bonus = Depressing enthusiasm leech for old players not at the top...

flamewind August 24 2005 2:21 PM EDT

You know, I never got why the NUB applies to forging. It helps them catch up to the vets..with more cash? To get gear which increases their PR while their MPR stays low and .. yeah.

Relic August 24 2005 2:29 PM EDT

Well since they can forge faster than anyone else, it makes them lots of money that they can either use to buy rares at base and them forge them and sell them for even more, or sell the cb2 for usd which quite a few nubs are doing from what I can see.

-Shockwave- August 26 2005 2:27 PM EDT

I think it could be a good idea to give the new players 300 BA instead of the bonus, which is very, very high... I'm a new player, and I think it is ridiculous whith the high bonus. I'm getting the bonus until 2nd of December, and i dont think it's the right thing to do. But your idea with the BA is pretty good i think :)

[T]Vestax August 26 2005 2:50 PM EDT

A fixed amount of BA for new players would not do the trick unless the time of the bonus was extended as the game gets older. It's a choice of capping time or BA in the extra BA discussion. As far as capping time, I've said that that won't be a good idea in the slightest. However, capping just the BA might work out much better.

Alternatively one could apply the same idea to the current bonus. Make it so the bonus is capped at 100% and just keep extending the time of the bonus. This means in order to get to the top after starting 8 months into the game the player would have to play hard for another 8 months.

As much as Jon would not want the new players to wait, I think the the economic issues surrounding new players having way too much cash in their hands too early might be just enough to force this choice this way. If a player can make a million in a week then a million isn't worth much, regardless of the fact that it really is worth something.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001TdX">Possible Aternative for NUB</a>