I have sold my character Gyaxx to Freed for USD. The transaction is complete, and I consider it paid in full.
September 3 2005 3:13 PM EDT
sad day in cb history
September 3 2005 3:16 PM EDT
A crying shame. But one that a few of us saw coming unfortunately with the bias of the game currently towards newer players and mages.
September 3 2005 3:24 PM EDT
CB lost a true fighter with this change. Sad to see you resign Sefton. Can't say I didn't see it coming either now that this is Mage Blender and all...
September 3 2005 3:53 PM EDT
Sefton, sad to see this coming to pass, but you know me -- I still need to interject my 2 cents... *smile*
How, in the name of Pete, can folks looking at the leaderboard say this is Mage Blender? Top Seven ALL tank teams. You can say anything you want about the PR and net worth...whatever. You can't call it Mage Blender when it simply _isn't_ I don't care if fights are closer or if the previous untouchable are now getting drawn or stalemated...the score is the score. Several tanks are ON TOP.
And if it IS Mage Blender, then Sefton, use your camping skills and even some of that USD you just got and show us how a mage can run to the top. Hell, I would petition Jon to allow you to start from scratch and receive the NUB, just so we could see if it is even remotely possible. I will bet $100 USD it is not. Even with your camping skills, even with the NUB, for a non-ToA team to reach the top and hold onto it consistently. Probably a stupid idea, since I doubt Jonathan would allow a NUB for you. Still interested in your thoughts about that, however.
I swear to Osiris I'm going to have a coronary if I see the term Mage Blender even once more.
September 3 2005 3:55 PM EDT
Mage Blender, Mage Blender, Mage Blender.
/me runs to get the defibrillator for Sutekh.
September 3 2005 3:56 PM EDT
September 3 2005 3:59 PM EDT
You better have that bottle of nitro handy, Sut.
September 3 2005 3:59 PM EDT
I thought it was:Enchanted Mage Tattoo Blender
September 3 2005 4:16 PM EDT
Yes, funny. Also funny how no one has really addressed my issue of wondering how anyone can call CB Mage Blender with a straight face?
/me goes to have his coronary in a quiet corner of his quiet home.
Please include in your response an answer to the following: If this is Mage Blender, what the hell are all y'all spending all that cash on?
September 3 2005 5:03 PM EDT
I will give my answer to the Mage Blender question. Almost all Newbs start as a single minion or multi minion MAGE team. You are pointing out that the a lot of the TOP players are not mages, but tanks. While this may be true to a point, it is because of their MASSIVE NW and HUGE tattoos that they are even able to do this. Look at the NW of the TOP Mages on the game, it is almost laughable how little it is in comparison to the tanks of the same Score/PR/MPR.
What do almost all mentors tell their new players? Go Mage, it is cheap, easy and powerful. So, I will say it again MAGE BLENDER. If almost all new players and a lot of old players are playing the Mage card, then I feel it is ruining the well-thought out strategies that make this game great to me.
I chose to play Tank because I like the strat and I have the NW to back it up, a lot of players don't and because they don't they cannot compete with Mages of the same Score/PR/MPR as them, so they adopt the strategy of if you can't beat them join them. Also, while I am ranting a little, how about all the newbs that are selling cb2 for usd because of their massive NUB. :)
September 3 2005 5:12 PM EDT
1. So, you tell them to be cheap and easy, then complain when they are?
2. If absolutely _everyone_ in the peon league is a mage, and virtually none in the Olympus Lounge are, that says the game is developmental, no? Be a mage, earn your way up, raise a tattoo to a decent level, save your money for "stuff" you will later want to buy, get your head in the game and some MPR built up, then really choose who you are going to be ... at which point, if you've done well enough by your tattoo and your piggy bank, you too can be a TOA'd tank. I'm not seeing the problem.
3. That doesn't explain where all the "bought" money is going. Surely BR isn't getting all of it.
September 3 2005 5:51 PM EDT
I am not a mentor. :)
I have nothing against selling cb2 for usd, however if the majority of good newbs are doing just that, how will they ever get to be an all-powerful tank after they ascend the lower mage ranks? :P
September 3 2005 5:53 PM EDT
Bast needs no follow-up, but I wanted to address Glory's point...
If you think the game is imbalanced as far as lower-to-higher, then say so ( I would love to discuss, as it is one of the tougher balance nuts to crack). Don't just call the game "Mage Blender" without explaining yourself.
Sorry if I sound frustrated, but generally, when I point out what I perceive as an imbalance, I get called a whiner. Yet folks at this point seem to be able to drop the phrase "Mage Blender" in casual conversation without having to support the sentiment at all.
If you have a problem, explain what you think is wrong. Calling the game "Mage Blender" doesn't help anyone or anything.
My take on things:
As it has been made quite obvious, the majority of the "larger" teams are tank based, ToA tank, to be specific.
However...the vast majority of lower teams are indeed, mage based. The problem is, without the NUB, these
characters generally STAY in that same area, with no reason to change strategies.
As it would seem, the "breaking point" where Tanks become equal with mages, or possibly better, seems to
be around the 600k PR mark. I assume that once the majority of current players hits this area, there will be more
strategy diversity, however, IMO, the lower ranks will always be mage based teams, since they are very easy
to start out with, and always will be, especially with the NW/PR link.
my two cents :P
September 3 2005 6:01 PM EDT
What points in my above post were not clear? I defended my Mage Blender comment just as you asked.
September 3 2005 6:09 PM EDT
Okay, I will call it mageblender, and I will back it up by stating what I tried:
I started out with many specs and such, like most do, but ended up going for a tank, as the supporter-gift was a VB, so I gave my 10$ and got the VB and started a single-tank team, going the HP=ST=DX strat.
Later I developed it by adding VA = Damage output and later again with Archery.
I was doing pretty good, if I was attacking people lower than myself.
Along came archery nerf, and I switched to BL instead of the Archery, had to increase VA accordingly and was smashing away, impressed by all the high hits I could suddenly make, got HP/ST/DX to around 130k each
I later got tired of always having to go lower in PR and thought, well, lets do a little change, would we?
I untrained everything (Lost 8-10% of ALL my xp, notice that), trained HP=FB and un-equiped my weapons, guess what? I could take 20% higher PR opponents than before (Own PR+5% or so) got higher rewards, with less money-sinks to drain my money (had the VB taken to 2,6 mil NW at that point), and been going up quickly ever since, soon adapted to a WM team and now a WEM, with the reasent changes to BL I am slowling converting to a TEM team, just for a bit more damage, but at any time, I will say that a mage with 10% lower XP/MPR than a tank and MPR*10 NW lower, will be better
So, lets see, you need 9 out of 10 BA of the fighter to keep up, so you can log on more rarely
You dont need to use money on ANYTHING beside a Tattoo (Maybe a CoI or MgS, depending on if you want a Wall with Tattoo or Wall with MgS) which leads to, yes, MORE BA! so, you grow quicker in MPR than any fighter, as he have to buy stuff to be able to defeat people at new levels, while he have to use 11% more BA than you (1 is 11% of 9) at least.
It just doesn't add up in any way, there is NO way for a fighter to keep up with a mage in the long run!
You are saying top7 is pure tanks, well, look at top 7 again, all of them either dumbed INTENSE amouths into the game and respec'd a high mage (think Mikel went mage to get high, then went tank? correct me if wrong) or have been playing since the start of the game so they had ALOT of time to get the cash!
You say you should start as mage, save up money and then change to a tank, well, sure, but the moment you change over, your growth will slow down, meaning that if you EVER change from mage to tank, you will hinder yourself from becoming as strong as you can possible become.
Dont Follow me?
Now, lets say you have an investment (the character is the investment, the more you put into him (BA) the more MPR he gets, the more MPR he has, the more MPR he gets pr. BA)
Each BA on a tank give you Current BA * 1,00x
Each BA on a mage give you Current BA * 1,00x * 1,11
So if you do the mage until 1Million MPR, you are a pretty good tank, but you will advance slower from that point, HENCE you will be WEAKER thant he MAGE you COULD HAVE been...
Now, shot and tell me this is not mage blender...
Flaw: "the more MPR he gets pr. BA", assuming "pr." means "per"?
Also, if you'll look at the top, very little up there is based on MPR. Which means at some point "the mage you would have been" runs up against "the tank you could just as well be with less MPR".
September 3 2005 6:21 PM EDT
Basically as simple as this:
Unless your at the top in PR its Mage Blender. Mage = low NW = lower PR = better rewards.
To get over that hump, to reach the pinnacle, you need to dump USD into the game and go tank.
Bast does it not from USD but from a massive MPR, the 2nd highest in the game. But occasionally, I see her dip into her shoe budget and buy a million cb2 from time to time.
Especially with the nerfs of 9/1/05 this is true more than ever.
September 3 2005 6:31 PM EDT
Flaw 1 > My country say pr, yours say per, sorry, but I think you got the point anyway.
Flaw 2> What are you talking about? I was saying that a MAGE with lower MPR will outdo a Tank, so 100k MPR Mage I would say is way better than any 100-110MPR tank UNLESS he used a lot of USD to buy CB2 to buy stuff (armor/weapons and forging)
When they get to the point where they should switch, I would think that if they where no longer a SM but maybe a WM or WEM or WTEM spec with the focus on the M, they would outdo most tanks, the benifith of a WTEM or TEM team to a EETT as many go for (Bast included, think it is EETM through? can't remember excatly) is that with the focus being on the M, you dont really need to spend that much on the T and can instead use what little spares you have on the T just for a little extra damage output in your total and to avoid stalemates if you mage should die.
I see no point in ever going from a SM to a ST, as I dont see a way for a ST with MPR equal to that of a SM to outdo him in battle, UNLESS as mentioned before, he used USD to get the stuff needed on the ST, in which case the ST can outperfom the SM, but will still get lower rewards due to now increase PR, meaning the SM will grow faster and eventually outdo the ST, AGAIN....
Flaw 1 > My country say pr, yours say per, sorry, but I think you got the point anyway.
Yes. I was saying: "assuming pr. = per, there's a flaw". Certainly it is no guarantee that the more MPR you have the more MPR-per-BA you gain. If that was true, Ranger would spend significantly less time telling us about his crappy rewards. :)
September 3 2005 6:38 PM EDT
Bast Flaw 2>
Now I got it, sorry for my rush there
Well, if he has the money to convert to a tank team, he would also be able to make a WM team (I dont see any single tanks in the top, Im blind?) with a HIGH tattoo on the WM + high AC and get a high bonus CoI for the mage, rendering any advantage the tank would get from his equipment, no?
For the sake of my arguments, I have assumed we speak about equal terms, so if the tank have to buy CB2 with USD to be compareable, we should let the mage buy excatly the same amouth of CB2 and buy stuff for advancement before comparing...
September 3 2005 6:41 PM EDT
Flaw 1 again>
Well, it is a more in general terms that I am speaking, Bast, no way a 150 MPR could hit same rewards as a 300 MPR if they have same spec and same NUB, the reason his rewards is "crappy" is due to him being able to compare it to people with NUB and the fact that he miss a significant amouth of people near his MPR to battle with.
September 3 2005 6:44 PM EDT
Tank Blender! (That one was for you Sute.)
Anyhow, I don't believe for a second that I can compete as a tank team. Not because tanks are weak, it's because I would have to spend my non-existent money to get the NW I need to compete. It takes at least a 30 mil NW weapon to be a top tank these days, and that's not worth missing dinner.
Granted if you all kept your money in your pants this would be mage blender for sure, but it simply isn't the case. (Sefton is of course an exception to the rule here.) Sure I've seen Gyaxx decline in rank, but it isn't the mages in the slightest that have done this to him, its the big spenders.
That was for the rest of you, now this next rant is for Sefton exclusively.
Sefton, you are a worthy role model. You are one of the players I would point a new player towards and say, "you want to be like him." It's not just your rank alone that has convinced me of this, it's the manor of how you got there, the way you've handled yourself over time, and because of your willingness to chat and help.
This post is beneath you in that it has a clear intention, which has nothing and everything to do with the deal between you and Freed. The deal was closed before you even posted. There was no payment plan, no promises needed to be kept, and no reason why a admin or sub-admin should need to know about it. This post was made because you wanted all of us to know and because you longed to here people's reactions. Maybe wanted to see people's sympathy go out to you or maybe you even hoped Jon would change something he had done. The point was that this is significant to you, so significant that it was worth sharing.
As for me I am glad you felt this need since it gives me the chance to say how I feel. It gives me the opportunity to plead with you and to possibly let me convince you that, if this was done for in-game reasons, it should be undone. You don't have to go mage and I don't want to challenge you into changing your strat at all. You can play anyway you want to, god knows you can play this game better then I ever could.
Most people will comment on the wonderful feeling they get when that guy who has been farming you for weeks or even months manages to lose to you. I however could never admit to such a feeling when it comes to Gyaxx. I am glad that a person like you can not just beat me but do it in 5 rounds versus 5 minions. Trade your character back if it can still be done and come play a game with me. We can just hang out and chat about strategies. We can chill and uncover the secret talents of the new comers. You'll still camp and fight I bet and I'll just be working on being MVP again for the 3rd time that particular week only to be bested a few minutes later. It will be fun this whole carnage blender thing.
As for the name of the player who the game assigned me as my mentor, I'll never remember who it was. As far as I'm concerned I have appointed my own mentor and that would be you.
iceforge, I have to disagree. A mage would not beat a tank of equal MPR, since this tank would almost always have a higher PR than the mage
(unless horribly under-equipped)
I agree that a mage with the same power as a tank, not MPR, would stand a much better chance of winning. However, at equal MPR,
a tank should have a rather large PR/MPR gap, if properly equipped.
your point on the lowered rewards does bring a good point, however, once this mage does catch up to said tank, the tank begins to gain
some nice rewards from beating on said mage. It evens out, eventually.
Just so we are clear here, I made this post so no one would wonder what happened to Gyaxx, and why he wasn't in my possession. I figured the transferring of such a large character and large amount of NW was deserving of public notice. As you see from my original post I did nothing other than as a matter of public record notify the CB community of the selling of Gyaxx to Freed for USD.
Everyone, and anyone is welcome to read into it whatever they want. If this post was not made I am certain I would have been deluged with CM regarding what happened to Gyaxx, why did freed have him, did I just give him away? Without a CB based record of payment, I felt this was the simplest way to answer those questions.
I guess since it did not concern game assests from the actual transfer you could argue it belongs in General vs. Public record, but I did not want anyone to say, HEY! thats a very one sided transfer there, what's up with that! It was not a one sided transfer I was well compensated for it.
As far as it being undone, that will not happen, me and my family of three kids will use this money and use it well.
I will also mention I do not feel that the selling of Gyaxx will in anyway dimenish my ability or love for talking strategy. It will give me more time to camp, and thus more items to give away as well.
AGAIN, this post was simply to notify the CB community as why Gyaxx was transferred to Freed without comisserate CB2 assets transfered to me.
P.S. as you will notice there is no, and there will be no, Sefton is quitting post. I am not quitting CB.
So when the sale post that will appear shortly occurs, it is not me selling out, it is me selling on my spare gear.
September 3 2005 7:26 PM EDT
Well, I wasn't accusing you of any wrong doing. Just trying to understand the situation. Thank you for letting us know. Thank you also for hanging around with us losers. :)
September 3 2005 8:17 PM EDT
There seem to be a couple of things going on...
One, several folks are pointing out a larger generalization than either "Mage Blender" (what a lot of folks say) or "It's all tanks at the top" (what I say). That is what I was going for.
At lower levels, we have mainly mages. At the top, we have 7 tanks. So why am I not hearing more about how imbalanced the game is in terms of smaller teams and larger teams? In general, I just hear MAGE BLENDER over and over again.
Hint to newbies: Buy an MgS and jack it up to +25 as fast as you can. Yes, it will cost a bit, but if this really is Mage Blender as everyones says, then going TM where the tank has an MgS is going to shoot you like a rocket to the top. Money well spent. Why aren't more newbies being told this? Are mentors really displaying that type of attitude: "Yeah, the game really sucks now, just be a stupid mage team..." If that is what ANYONE is doing, then do us all a favor and knock it off. Or has this become Self-Fulfilling-Prophecy Blender?
The other thing I am hearing, from the elite, no less, is how USD is required. Um, to compete with whom? Each other? Should I be feeling bad that some top teams feel the need to spend USD (if it is even the whole top seven, I really have no idea) to beat each other up? Here's an idea: stop. If someone wants to keep on and drop a grand and beat you -- then let them. What doesn't make sense is to "keep up with the Joneses" and then say, "Yep, it must be Mage Blender because I have to keep spending USD and using a ToA to remain at the top."
That's not Mage Blender, it's Stupid Blender. On CB1 I was just about the stupidest you could imagine (probably stupider), and I felt the power of USD. But I knew when to stop. I wasn't going to go blow for blow against Todd-Spydah once they pumped the Loch to +225. As spydah himself so eloquently put it, I went off and "sulked down at the forge" and made about 75% of all my USD back (would have made it all back and then some, but times change: CB2 was announced).
You want to spend money, then go ahead, but don't complain when game changes make the USD less worthwhile. No one (including Jonathan) ever asked anyone to spend money to become dominant. It's not "Mage Blender", it's becoming "You-Dont-HAVE-To-Spend-USD-To-Dominate-Anymore Blender", and I say, "Rockin' good news, peanut."
Who are you callin' a peanut ?!? o.O
September 3 2005 8:24 PM EDT
No one, Skippy.
September 3 2005 8:43 PM EDT
Copy and paste your comments onto another post please. As much as I would like to say something about things you have said, I think we should try to remember what this post was suppose to be about.
September 3 2005 9:07 PM EDT
I think this post should be cut up and the part that starts talking about mage blender should be moved to another thread.
September 3 2005 9:31 PM EDT
Yeah, my bad for bringing all that up. Someone else can paste into another thread if they wish, I don't really have any preference. Since I started it, might be best to just let it die.
Back on topic: Sefton, I am glad you were able to make some cash, and I hope to see you around here for a long time to come.
September 4 2005 4:16 PM EDT
looks like my name should be changed to MR.Silencer
I'm not a mod darn it so why did the discussion die lol.
This thread is closed to new posts.
However, you are welcome to reference it
from a new thread; link this with the html
<a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001V6u">Sold Gyaxx to Freed</a>