Question about the NUB (in General)
September 15 2005 2:36 PM EDT
I'm just wondering, does the NUB get higher and higher later on ? I mean, currently with the NUB, a player (for example, hellokitty) can get 450 k MPR + 20 mil+ NW without usd in exactly 1 month. In 6 more months, will the new user be able to get like 700-800 k MPR + 50 m+ NW in 1 month ?
I think 450 k+ MPR in a month is really disturbing, first it kills the price for character (which already low before), and second unfair to the older players. That's just my opinion, what do you guys think ?
Why did you have to revive this topic yet again?
We have already had months of the same two people complaining about the NUB and just as many months with another few people defending it, lets give it up already and if there is ever a problem Jon willl address it.
I for one will not flog this poor horse's corpse again.
I stand by the point of NUB being good which should still be more than obvious.
September 15 2005 2:49 PM EDT
I'm asking a question there, did you even read ? Will the NUB get higher and higher ?
Yes it will because if it didn't new players would fall back to a point of not having a chance at even approaching top 10.
The point is to keep new players coming and staying, not to please a few old players to keep them happier over the noobs.
September 15 2005 2:57 PM EDT
I think the reason it is so hard to swallow, is that ONLY new players are able to catch up to the top easily... but then again, the only newbs that will actually reach the full potential of their NUB are the ones that probably deserve it.
but that, as they say, is that.
So what if new players start passing you? if you've been here for so long that you can complain about the NUB, you probably aren't here for just the sake of being #1. If it helps retain even 1 player that might otherwise have left, I'm all for it. As for those who leave in a huff, good for them.
Yes the length of the NUB is fixed at 120 days right now so the % bonus has to go up to give them the chance of getting to the top within those 120 days.
September 15 2005 3:58 PM EDT
Not to flog a dead horse, but...
Since the NUB gets higher as the game gets older, after a year or two, new users will be making incredible rewards--almost economic-breaking rewards.
Wouldn't it be better to have a fixed NUB and increase the length over the life of the game?
I believe the need they create balances the economic explosion...
September 15 2005 7:19 PM EDT
I believe the increased money rewards is to let those who started let have a change to get a few rares and upgrade them enough so when they get to be in the top 5 MPR, they will have items that will help them.
However, I have seen quite a few players with the NUB selling the cb2 they make for usd, and just using the NUB really for that purpose.
September 15 2005 7:42 PM EDT
Ranger brings up the most disturbing part of the whole problem, new players seeing dollar signs when they notice the rate they can sell out for.
This will cause the worth of CB2 to drop much more than it already has.
Xiaz on Hiatus
September 15 2005 7:44 PM EDT
If another hellokitty joined in 6 months, most likely.
I think we need a new forum for discussing the NUB in. That way I can toggle it off.
September 15 2005 8:20 PM EDT
Why don't you make it a feature in your CB add-on. Search for NUB related forums and remove them from your sight.
Vampire King is thinking what I'm thinking by the way. Giving a flat bonus of 100% means the new player can only move up twice as fast and yet can still catch up, so long as you make the bonus last long enough. In the example of 100% they would only need to play for the time CB has been active, maybe less do to the richness of our economy and fightlists now. Either way it means that a player would have to play for around 9-10 months to be number one if they were to join the game now.
The big issue is that it took me weeks, maybe even a month for me to have an effective team in this game. (Granted I never asked for help either.) The amount of time it takes to get a handle on the game does not change as the game gets older. So as the bonus gets bigger it begins to represent a greater portion of lost time, lost rewards, and maybe a lost chance at a top spot.
CB is not the sort of game where you can afford to take the time to understand what it is your doing first. Your only chance now is to hit the ground running. This often means asking someone what to do first and learning how to fix it yourself way later. Or rather the only ones able to make it are real life friends of current players such as Mikel and Ilovehellokitty who can have the game explained to them before or just as they start.
September 15 2005 10:23 PM EDT
A Flat bonus sounds like a really great idea to me. Basically there's a cap of how much a newbie can get in 1 month. Besides, I thought that CB is a long term game, where you have to play it more than just a month or 2 to get in the top 10, but it seems with the NUB, 2-3 months is enough to get in the top 10 especially if you can use just a little bit of usd.
September 15 2005 11:12 PM EDT
keep in mind most of those that hit the top will drop quickly after the nub runs out since they will quit because of "bad" rewards. So the top 10 that are here for the long run are the ones that are truely the top 10.
uhm I joined this game on a complete whim, I knew nobody when I started up.
Also you read toooo much into it, this game isn't that hard, there's strategy advice all over the forums. Just read what everyone is complaining about as an overpowered strat and run with it, until you get the hang of it.
September 15 2005 11:48 PM EDT
I agree with you, Devilord. Unless something changes this month, it looks like we could have a NUB player at the top of MPR standings within a month.
Take a look at Derek's char, Invisible. It's quite ironic that no one has brought up that char despite it reaching an amazing 500k MPR in its first month... Must be where the name comes from, "Invisible".
Anyways, view that char's graph and compare it to Ranger's The Apocalypse Book. In the past month, Ranger's char has went up from about 700k MPR to about 805k MPR... A 105k MPR increase. Derek's Invisible has gone from about 15k MPR to 520k MPR.
Ranger has been the most consistent player since the game's opening (on Jan. 1), which can be supported by "battles as challenger". Derek has fought about 45k battles, which isn't even comparable to Ranger's 324k. Yes, Ranger has a 290k MPR lead on Derek, but as we know, with the use of the NUB and a RoE, that lead will diminish very quickly.
Basically, it just puzzles me how a new player that doesn't even use as much BA, can pass you in MPR so, so quickly. I've been passed by quite a few players, and I just have to accept it. Though I use more BA than most, I realize that there will always be some people that will pass me like I'm standing still (because of their NUB).
I don't have the luxury of spending hundreds of USD to get near the top, so I decided to work solely on my MPR. In order to maximize my rewards, all opponents on my fightlist have scores well above my PR and I also use a RoE. What more can I do to contend?
September 16 2005 12:41 AM EDT
I'm surprised that some people like Glory, Chocolate Thunder haven't posted here because from what I saw in the FS/WTB forum, they're trying to sell character and those characters seem worthless. 377 k MPR character, highest bid so far is 700 k, Number 14 biggest MPR in the game, only 2.5 mil.
According to Tormentor, he can get 500 k per day after buying all BA, maybe 600-700 k clean without buying BA if he plays a lot, so 4-7 days to have the 14th Biggest MPR in the game ? okayyy then.
September 16 2005 1:01 AM EDT
I just finished buying up all ba, I started with 70k and finished with 20k. So I lost 50k on buying 576 ba at 712 or 715 ba cost. So all it costs is 50k to gain half of the days natural mpr gain through ba replenish. But I can say one thing though, it is getting harder to level. that mpr increase will drop as a player gets higher up. I average total of 400 exp per ba spent where most players without NUB only average 200. Also keep in mind new players will have even easier time getting up there because they have like extra 20% more bonus. Most of players don't know how to use the bonus, Invisible and Kitty though somehow knew exactly what strat to use and how NUB worked. I did 1 character first month and hit 266k mpr then switched to working on bunker. So I could be around 550k mpr right nowwith first character or even higher if I did not quit it for this new strat I decided would work better.
Once those guys hit a bit higher they will lose lots of mpr due to have to retrain to kill higher opponents.
Today I was able to defeat Kitty who was 90k mpr higher at the time and then for some reason I stalemate her now because she untrained something which btw she lost 8k mpr to.
Lucky for me my bet with warchild excludes everyone else who is going to be later on in the top 10 :)
Oh and I doubt they will beat ranger next month, if they do then I'm doing something wrong because at the rate ranger is going I will beat him somewhere in november.
I got tired of farming Tor...so i changed strategy and I am glad you were already happy :D i am glad .
September 16 2005 1:51 AM EDT
Kitty, what did you change that made me stalemate you?
September 16 2005 3:05 AM EDT
Sorry Mikel, I based my judgment on fact that you and Ranger have shared the same IP on a few occasions. I assumed that since you were both in the same place at one point then you both somehow knew each other. My mistake.
As for your strategy I can't say there wasn't much of it to speak of. I had a prominent member of CB tell me that they borrowed your starting strat from someone else and urged you to try it. That would make either that person a lier or it makes you a lesser tactician then you clam to be. Using USD doesn't make you a genius either.
It took you a good 3 weeks to get yourself up and started so you can't say there isn't some learning phase early in the game. Note you also took advantage of two loopholes that worked well together. Loopholes that can no longer be used by anyone else. And no you were not the first to exploit these either, just the first to do it so well.
The only thing I can't take away from you is your effort. You have certainly put more work into battling as much as possible then the majority of players here. If clan points earned over time was to be used as an indicator of effort, then only a hand full of people could clam to have put more work into their team then you.
I do indeed congratulate you on this effort and on the strategizing you have done since your beginning. I see that you gave up your attempt of having all three EOs, but I suppose some things just aren't meant to be effective in this game. Even though it seems you have failed to overcome the very top by force alone, maybe you can still "win" through attrition. Then again, does a person ever really win this game.
As for Kitty and Derek, you guys are doing awesome. After being rushed through the whole cycle recently and having my CB life squeezed into four months I can offer you a small portion of advice. Your pace at this rate is completely expected by me. Please don't think that you are ever moving too fast. Pretty soon your rewards will peak if they haven't already. Trust me on this, there is certainly a peak.
Soon you will be hitting your team against the three or four tiers that exist. Up here the teams are bunched together and you will think you are stalemating and not progressing when indeed you are doing just fine. Don't become discouraged. As much as every other player thinks you will bust through each and every one of these ceiling in no time, I want you to know that in actuality you can not afford to slack off if your goal is to be number one. If that is not your goal then you can breath. relax, have fun, and maybe even sleep on a regular schedule. Good luck to you all both new and old alike.
September 16 2005 7:47 AM EDT
"Sorry Mikel, I based my judgment on fact that you and Ranger have shared the same IP on a few occasions. I assumed that since you were both in the same place at one point then you both somehow knew each other. My mistake. "
Never, EVER, NEVER, have Mikel and I used the same IP address. Just because your an admin does not give you the right to accuse people of cheating when they have not. Remember as an admin, your word does carry a lot of weight in the forums. Please do not abuse that power.
"As for your strategy I can't say there wasn't much of it to speak of. I had a prominent member of CB tell me that they borrowed your starting strat from someone else and urged you to try it. That would make either that person a lier or it makes you a lesser tactician then you clam to be. Using USD doesn't make you a genius either. "
I am the person who suggested to Mikel to use the strat made by Chocolate Thunder. However, Mikel modified it as he needed to in order to maximize his rewards.
I am in no way defending the NUB, however your accusations about me in particular are quite disturbing, especially coming from one who carries so much responsibility as you do.
Xiaz on Hiatus
September 16 2005 8:00 AM EDT
It's a conspiracy, the NUB is said to be introduced to help new player reach the top and in turn keep them coming back to play. But in fact, the NUB was introduced to irritate all the old(er) players, so much so they decide to quit. Well guess what buddy ol' pal, I AIN'T LEAVING!
September 16 2005 8:58 AM EDT
(I would never _ever_ assume you or Mikel to be cheaters. I talk about each of you separately because I assume from what I know that this is true. I'm not trying to abuse any privilege since my knowledge does not come from any privilege. If there was to be any accusation of anyone being multi then I assure you it would appear in Public Record and not as a minor note in a General post reply.
I was not trying to establish grounds for thinking anyone is abusing CB so please everyone just take your mind off the subject. I was only trying to establish my reason for thinking these two people have indeed met before.
Understand that everything I say could be a mistake. I am most likely mistaken that Mikel knew anyone in this game before he played. I could be mistaken about the experience I had the day I saw the IPs matching. What I remember is that, at the time, I was no where near looking up IPs. Instead someone else came to me and asked me to look, and so, yes, it had to be pointed out to me.
If indeed I am mistaken then please understand that does not mean that I fabricated what I said on purpose, or that I had any ill intention. Without proof this subject would be closed anyhow, and I doubt any proof actually exists.
Either way this is a vast distraction from what is the topic at hand. In fact this reply to a reply to a reply has all been a distraction from the subject. Yet, I refuse to delete my own posts since they deserved to be judged and accounted for. My right to edit and remove posts are not meant to be used that way.)
Back on-topic. Yes the new user bonus will continue to grow as it tries to take the life-span of CB, which is growing all the time, and compressing it to a mere four months. It does still stand that most if not nearly all new players will take some time to figure out what is horribly ineffective in this game. Therefore, I am still pushing that we leave the bonus itself as static and rather we extend the time the player has until their bonus runs out. It's still the same bonus, it's just length over strength.
September 16 2005 9:35 AM EDT
I must admit the concept of a bonus for new players is very tempting for people and gives definite incentive for new people to keep complaining.
I find it slightly ridiculous however that I can gain 500k MPR in just one month when the current top player has just 800k MPR. I do not use all my BA each day, I miss on average two or three sets of BA each day through sleep and various other reasons however I do always buy all BA available.
So despite the fact I play less than many people I will still be around the 2mil MPR mark (assuming I continue growing at the same rate) by the time my NUB expires - far above anyone that began on January 1.
I love the concept of the NUB but think it should be capped at say 100% and should run for the amount of time CB has been in existance at the date the new user joins.
September 16 2005 9:39 AM EDT
Ok first sentence should read new players joining not complaining
Scrap the NUB and Top Ten exemption. Everyone fights on an equal footing and everyone has the opportunity of reaching the top, regardless of when they created their character.
September 16 2005 11:08 AM EDT
Vestax, when did they share the same IP?
I looked and it seems to be never, kind of gutsy thing to state with nothing backing it, eh.
Aren't dynamic IP's great?
I have probably shared an IP with bartjan at some point yet have never met the guy.
Got to love 'em :D
September 16 2005 11:31 AM EDT
What you have posted in analogous to me saying that Vestax and Ilovehellokitty have shared an IP address so you must be friends, implying to some you are multis and/or cheating. Then having no proof on it, and then posting it in the forums so all can see and make their own assumptions. Then saying "well I heard it as a rumor so its ok for me to post it".
As an admin you have a higher responsibilty to make sure your posts are accurate and correct without baseless accusations.
Obviously my example above is JUST AN EXAMPLE.
Ranger, he said that at a point he remembers you 2 sharing an IP which he assumed to mean that you were friends, aquaintances, whatever.
Remind me how this actually implies that you are a cheater?
September 16 2005 11:37 AM EDT
What I am saying is that when you say people share an IP address one of the thoughts is that they are cheating. However, I have checked and never has my IP address been shared by anyone else in the game. I check my IP addy every 3 days to see if its shared with someone else and it never has been.
September 16 2005 11:40 AM EDT
Zog, they have never shared an IP address.
And no, unless you have the same ISP you will never share one just because they are dynamic, IP blocks are assigned to each ISP and they never tend to rotate those.
Unless either or both of them happen to both come through the same proxy server at a higher level than the ISPs involved.
I've seen it happen elsewhere.
September 16 2005 1:58 PM EDT
this is much more fun than discussing the NUB ; )
even if you did know someone else on CB and gave strategy advice, how could that ever be considered cheating?
September 16 2005 4:02 PM EDT
Both G Beee and Mrwuss have confirmed that I am indeed wrong about what I remember seeing. I apologize if there was any hint at fowl play when there was none. In all honesty it is better that I be wrong anyhow. It is most likely the case that I was such a noob once that I could tell if a transfer was coming or going and based a experience on that one time. A mistake I would not make now-a-days. My official response to Ranger and Mikel and I guess the community at large is that I'm sorry.
However, I already stated before that I was most likely mistaken and Ranger has already made us a fresh clean post in which to discuss this topic. Therefore, I think it better that this one be closed. Feel free to make a burn Vestax post if you wish.
This thread is closed to new posts.