a new idea: poison in battles! (in General)

Biscuitback September 22 2005 2:08 PM EDT

i don't know if this has been brought up for cb2, but i'm sure it's been brought up cb1.


i've played alot of rpg games and i think everyone i ever played had some kind of poison in it.

so i was thinking of a way it can be brought here where it's not too powerful or to weak to even consider using it. i'm not good with formulas or anything, but there's a ton of you out there that is.

i was thinking.. of course poison taking a few hp's every round, plus sapping some strength and dexterity.

jon doesn't have to introduce it all at once, but a lil at a time. like first the ability, then maybe a tattoo, or a weapon here and there.

i think it's a good concept, and i'm sure with any new idea there's always all that coding, but since i've been playing for a while and contributed really nothing to the cb community, i figure i could get my first flaming post out of the way :) flame away.

BrandonLP September 22 2005 2:12 PM EDT

Quote from the Create a Thread page:

"Please give a descriptive subject. 'I have a question'
is a poor subject; so is '... an idea.' 'How does the black market work?'
is better, or, 'Idea: increasing Clan interaction.'"

Biscuitback September 22 2005 2:13 PM EDT

is there a way i can change my topic?

csraven September 22 2005 2:14 PM EDT

interesting concept... i almost like it... Question, what would determine how much damage poison would inflict per round?

Biscuitback September 22 2005 2:16 PM EDT

i was thinking maybe a small percent, kinda like protection works.

AdminShade September 22 2005 2:18 PM EDT

changed topic a bit.

Biscuitback September 22 2005 2:19 PM EDT

you are a good man shade.... thank you.

csraven September 22 2005 2:22 PM EDT

would have to be a very small percentage... just to ensure that newbs don't die in one shot... now i don't think it would be an ability, might be a bit dificult to mix that in with DD, but mabey a new type of ammo... like poison arrows... the would have to be rare ofcourse, and a bit expensive.......

chappy [Soup Ream] September 22 2005 2:22 PM EDT

Thanks Shade for always being on top of things ..

About poison ... I like the idea of reducing HP, but don't really see where STR and DEX loss would come from ...

Maybe having poison arrows / bolts instead of slayer / seeker :P That sounds kinda cool, or have a crossbow that poisons??

Any thoughts?

Biscuitback September 22 2005 2:26 PM EDT

i would think the ability would have to come first... the others come second.

poison would have to take away hp's, but every spell already has that, but when you are poisoned though, you are weak. and no spell out there takes away hp, str, and dex.

but to make it good enough to use, but not to weak to be a waste.

csraven September 22 2005 2:29 PM EDT

Decay takes away str/dex... and replacing seeker/slayer is out of the question... too many people use them a lot... and i understand the thing about being weakened by poison... but HP/STR/and DEX is a little much

Stephen Young September 22 2005 2:31 PM EDT

I think a poison spell would be cool. Taking away HP alone is kind of redundant with what we have now, but slowly degrading HP and ST over 20 or so rounds would be kind of cool.

2 different poisons, one for HP and ST, one for HP and DX.

I know that we have EO's that reduce ST and DX, and xbows that do the same, but slowly reducing over time would add an interesting dynamic.

chappy [Soup Ream] September 22 2005 2:32 PM EDT

I didn't mean replace the slayer / seeker ... I meant they would be in the same category as the slayer / seeker but separate ...

Poison Bolts 10x5 (+4) inflict poison damage during melee rounds as a % of the damage done during ranged ... *shrug* something kinda like that

csraven September 22 2005 2:37 PM EDT

sorry for the misunderstanding... but you are right, however again that % would have to be a small one considering the amount of damage some of the higher ups can do... like mabey 0.5% of ranged damage towards HP...

and im not sure about the HP/STR and HP/DEX arrows being seperate... that just adds way too much ammo into the game... also it would create an enourmus neccesity for high level archers... and that seems a little restricting to me...

chappy [Soup Ream] September 22 2005 2:48 PM EDT

I agree that it would be a small % ... that same % would be deducted from the poisoned minion each melee round ... so you don't want to see poison damage of 25k each round ... more like 5k (im trying to think of higher end) ...

QBOddBird September 22 2005 2:52 PM EDT

Make it spawn as a rare item: Weapon Poison. Then use the merge ammo button to merge it with the arrows or bolts, and viola.

Like slayers or seekers, it wouldn't be worth it to use every battle - but it would be good to equip for defense.

AdminShade September 22 2005 2:57 PM EDT

Poison would be a very difficult thing to implement i think.

Because what would have poison then? a new ranged weapon? melee weapon? a spell?

how would it deal it's damage? points per round? how many rounds? how would armor block poison? can armor block poison anyway?

Try to fill in some if not most of these gaps and it would all sound a bunch more clearer. :)

Also another thing, if it would be available on both melee and ranged weapons, would it stack or just do nothing more?

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] September 22 2005 2:59 PM EDT

Biscuitback, I've been suggesting poison in CB since CB1 was around, since Jon hasn't listened to me all this time (either because I was mostly jesting in my many times I suggested it, or because it simply isn't part of his plan) I don't think now is any different..

chappy [Soup Ream] September 22 2005 3:13 PM EDT

Because what would have poison then? a new ranged weapon? melee weapon? a spell?

how would it deal it's damage? points per round? how many rounds? how would armor block poison? can armor block poison anyway?

Here we go: you can have poison ammo / poisoned ranged weapons / poisoned melee weapons / poison blocking armor? No spell.

I have to think about the rest to give more specific details..

chappy [Soup Ream] September 22 2005 3:16 PM EDT

I think that this would maybe work better if we had an additional equipment slot .. one for an accessory of some sort ... (ring / amulet / belt) that way there can be an accessory that negates certain things ... like in this case you could have an amulet that has multiple mods .. one of them being reduced poison damage .. or even poison imunity ... ??

AdminShade September 22 2005 3:18 PM EDT

Additional item slot won't work. Why else do you think we have to have runes in the body and cloak part?

chappy [Soup Ream] September 22 2005 3:19 PM EDT

well to be honest I never understood why you couldn't add one ... I figured we didn't want to use another slot for a tattoo ...?

Grim Reaper September 22 2005 3:41 PM EDT

How about make sling poison shots, that should revive the use of slings?

[T]Vestax September 22 2005 3:57 PM EDT

Would poison be good as a spell?
I think the spells and skills for this game are pretty much set in stone. Items are far easier to introduced in to the game.

If it was ammo it would have to be weak or else the higher ups will be overpowered?
Wrong, the top players are content with using the cheapest weakest ammo they can find most of the time. Making it rare is enough of a discouragement to most players.

Would poison be protected by AC?
That is a silly game mechanic to wonder about. You could suggest a logical scheme such as poison only being reduced by your endurance and ST, but Jon would implement it in any way he found to be fair given his knowledge of the game engine.

We should make another item slot
I highly doubt that is necessary. There are dozens of options already that adding more slots is still a pointless venture. We already have armor, weapons, and ammo. Not to mention there could be a tattoo option that gives off a poisonous gas protecting the entire team or something else just as silly. Shield slots could arguably be used for 'gadgets' and 'devices' that have the same shield penalties to two-handed weapons and ranged weapons. The options are endless enough.

Well what should it be then?
When you think about it, does that really matter. The point of this post so far is simply just poison. Maybe if your flexible enough Jon will give you what your asking for, or, then again, maybe he won't.

Will [Retired] September 22 2005 4:11 PM EDT

If not poison then something else, like death-sentence. Depending on the spell's level (exp / MPR, for example) the single opponent it was cast on dies in a few rounds. (more rounds the weaker the spell).

That would affect one minion, another you could call 'Purple haze' for example, would affect all opposing minions (like a gaseous haze). Working on the same principle as the poison/death-sentence.

Or maybe a skill that makes you win stalemates (err, 'last rites' or 'last laugh' maybe). If you can make your team last till round 25 then you win... (again trained on the basis of exp / MPR or PR, so you'd continuously have to invest in the spell)

I've been postulating on these for a while, but maybe they're too much like finger of death?

AdminShade September 22 2005 5:06 PM EDT

"Aphex Twin said: If not poison then something else, like death-sentence. Depending on the spell's level (exp / MPR, for example) the single opponent it was cast on dies in a few rounds. (more rounds the weaker the spell).

return of Finger of Death?

5583 days old {Gaza} September 22 2005 5:37 PM EDT

as the Tui ad says: bring back FoD? Yeah Right!

chappy [Soup Ream] September 22 2005 7:05 PM EDT

Seeing as how we have unarmed combat, what about twoweapon fighting?? lol ... one example: Skill: 2 weapon fighting Minion's can you two melee weapons during combat. The first weapon's damage is standard, but the second weapon's damage is a % of the normal damage of the second weapon. The % is controled by the skill where it can range from 0% up to 120%?? the 120% is questionable .. kinda like BL though in that respect .. or how BL used to be.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 22 2005 7:20 PM EDT

:) We had a thread on two weapons a little while ago. It would do nothing that BL doesn't already do, but BL does it better. x2 the damage is just like using two weapons. There's no reason for a two weapon skill. It's either worse than BL, and no-one woulduse it, or more powerful, which would make BL redundant. In that case, just buff BL.

chappy [Soup Ream] September 22 2005 7:31 PM EDT

The advantage would be using and gaining the bonuses from say two BoTH's ... you swing two times each attack ... thus gaining an additional 20% ... or maybe slapping a VB in the off hand and a BoTH in the other .. you lose a ranged weapon so there is a definite loss there, but it would add a slight tweak to TANK strats ..

maulaxe September 22 2005 7:39 PM EDT

you would NOT gain the bonuses from two of the BoTHs... because to make the skill anywhere near balanced, you would be taking big penalties to each - and having two smaller blows versus one big one is worse when you take any kind of damage reduction into account.

chappy [Soup Ream] September 22 2005 7:46 PM EDT

I don't see the big deal .. BL is used to double damage in melee .... you can still use a ranged weapon .. With 2 weapon fighting you lose your ranged attack and get to swing another melee weapon. This giving you the chance to roughly double the damage you would normally do .. so far still worse than BL because like you said BL gives off one big hit rather than 2 smaller hits ... why then shouldn't you get the extra bonus of the BL?? That's about all the skill would have going for it ...

chappy [Soup Ream] September 22 2005 7:48 PM EDT

*** BoTH not BL sorry

Biscuitback September 22 2005 11:51 PM EDT

i'm shocked that there is so many replies :)

i think poison can be implemented into the game. i don't know much about the game mechanics of cb, but i really don't think it would be that hard to do.

i think poison should be a spell that is cast in the first round of course like AS, DM, or protection, but does a continual and progressive amount of damage as the rounds goes on even after the caster dies. i don't think it has to start out all that much damage, but i think you get an idea. maybe just that alone would be enough to make it a spell, without reducing str and dex, cause i don't think we have a dd spell that a caster can cast, does damage, and still does it even after he dies.

what do you think?

QBOddBird September 23 2005 12:13 AM EDT

Would have to be cast during melee, like Decay. Otherwise you get a suicide minion up front with 20 hp, Max Poison, CoI and the new Gloves. Probably +2~ %, which would leave the opposing guys reeling. It would be too powerful of a strategy, unless you made it incredibly weak....and then what's the point?

Biscuitback September 23 2005 12:17 AM EDT

i was kinda thinking mainly for a suicidal minion.

i mean if it did half the damage of a FB, i don't think that would be so bad. then you would either have to pick poison, or one of the other suicidal spells out there. maybe 1/3 of the damage of a FB, not too weak, but not too strong either.

QBOddBird September 23 2005 12:29 AM EDT

The problem is, if it does half the damage of FB continuously even after the minion has died, all you gotsta do then is have a 2nd minion behind him with 250k AC, ToE on the guy up front, and MgS on the 2nd minion. Then they'd sit and wail away on that guy while the poison ate them alive. It just seems to powerful to me, I dunno.

Makes me think of the GA/AS with RoS, and if you put this spell into the mix with that tactic....

Jerk September 23 2005 1:03 AM EDT

Well how about instead of making it an attack perhaps making it some sort of a defensive items perk. For instance, A minion would only have the possibility of inflicting a poison ailment on the other party during melee rounds and that the poison is a direct cause of them actually striking you. Then after you have poisoned the attacker they will slowly lose HP/DEX/STR at a small percentage every round.Now this would not effect mage since they are caster but it would definitely effect huge tanks that are able to one round soank you... Just an idea is all.
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