Anti-NUB users......this is for you (in General)

Lu Bu[willsue] September 23 2005 2:30 AM EDT

well it has been bothering me that all these veterans always complain about the new user bonus and how they say people that started out this long is getting faster then they have ever been. but my question to all you NUB haters is the real reason why you guys hate NUB besides the fact it gives new user the advantage to catch up to some people.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] September 23 2005 2:52 AM EDT

re-word that a bit please...

QBRanger September 23 2005 3:52 AM EDT

The reason I am against the NUB is:

It gives new players far to much rewards for far too little effort.

I have been playing and using my BA for over 9 months now and am watching players who play for less then 1 month get to over 500k MPR. It took me over 6 months of playing to reach that point.

I would love to have more players reach the top ranks but not after playing only 3-4 months. Let them play cb for 9 months like I have to reach the pinnacle of the game. This is just plain unfair to all those who have started from the beginning to let someone just rocket past them like they were standing still.

I understand there is thinking that "well all those they get passed did not use all their BA". Well thats just misguided thinking. Someone who uses lets say 50% of their BA over 9 months should never be passed by someone who uses 100% of the BA for 1 month.

Now the money rewards are susposed to be elevated to let new players catch up to the older players with respect to rares. That is also a bit misguided in the fact that I make about 40k a day after buying BA or about 300k a week. As a player who started Jan 1, I never had the ability to "fight up" and get super high rewards. But players with the NUB make over 400k a day even with buying BA. Thats about 3 million a week. Far, far more than I even made. And they have the ability to "fight up" all the time.

I am not against some sort of New User Bonus, but to compress all that I, or other older players, did into only 4 months is just wrong.

Just take a look at Derek's character Invisibile. Almost 600k MPR in 1 month 10 days. That alone should show people the NUB is wrong. And Derek even admits to not using all his BA as he could. How is that fair to players who started from the beginning and played through all the changes of CB like NW/PR, the COBF, the introduction of the tattoo artist, etc...

Jerk September 23 2005 3:58 AM EDT

WOOHOO come on Derek keep it up fellow NUB lol

Lu Bu[willsue] September 23 2005 3:59 AM EDT

Well also ranger you have to realize people do get good help from mentors that actually devote their game to the mentees and help them out that give them the help and sometimes the items they need. Well, but people do get past my MPR/PR as well even though theyve been playing less and getting to a high mpr/pr/score and stuff like that, but like i said, they may have been helped by one of the top people.

Lu Bu[willsue] September 23 2005 4:03 AM EDT

also you said some stuff that didnt make you sais this, "The reason I am against the NUB is: "

then you say this, " I am not against some sort of New User Bonus"...explain that as well

NUB=New user Bonus

QBRanger September 23 2005 4:04 AM EDT

Lu Bu,

What are you saying???

I help my mentees and others who ask for my advice.

However, that does not explain why it is good for the game to see people who get the NUB rocket pass others who started at the games beginning. Or why/how it is fair to them as well.

QBRanger September 23 2005 4:06 AM EDT

Lu Bu;

2 things.

1) Learn how to type in complete sentences. At least so people can understand your thoughts.

2) Learn how to read. It clearly states I am against the NUB as it is now but not against some "sort of NUB".

Jerk September 23 2005 4:12 AM EDT

Why can't we just agree to disagree about he NUB already I mean everyone is more than aware Rangers feeling on it as there is no doubt as to my feelings on it as well. Until Jon decides to do something different then please just let a sleeping dog lie already. Yes I am a NUb myself and yes I haven't been here since day 1 but I am still 6th like it or not

Lu Bu[willsue] September 23 2005 4:16 AM EDT

well im not saying about how you treat your mentees or complain to the fact that people "sky rocket" past others with the NUB. and a nice guy and im not the kind of person who likes others to tell me how to type sentences, let me do my own thing...besides why get mad over something so small compared to the NUB? you are the one that kind of convinced jon to lower the NUB almost half way and youre the one always complaining about it ( as of what people told me). you got the NUB lowered, i was at 146% now im at 117%, the fact is if new players were to actually start out like you and every other veteran on CB2 well it wouldnt really be fun as it is now. I may have a NUB and people "sky rocket" me and they have a NUB higher than me and have been playing shorter than me, but what is there to compain about? lets just say this........ITS A COMPUTER GAME LIVE WITH IT!

Undertow September 23 2005 4:30 AM EDT

Convinced Jon to lower the NUB almost half way?

What are you smokin?

Jerk September 23 2005 4:33 AM EDT

Well my NUB was a puny 82% and with one of the changes my BA cost went from about 350 per BA to 625+ per BA because some people were ssaying NUB were making too much CBD and were actually able to buy the good gear that the veterans were using. How unfair is that that a NUB is allowed to use the right gear and the best gear without using USD to get it.So should they make a special section in auctions for just veterans gear and you not eligible for it til 3 months after NUB runs out and its stats are 150% better than anything a NUB could use I didn't complain or whine I just sucked it up and drove on. Then another change for NUB's which effected both myself and drastically affected Mikel's growth where the NUB was "edited " due to certain NUB users growth. Once again I took this change (which knocked about 10 days ie. 80k MPR with a decent Clan bonus) with a grain of salt and watched as Mikel was knocked down to almost nonexistant even though he did indeed start after me but his ran out long before mine. Funny how if this change hadn't accured we would prolly be looking at the MPR list and seeing MIkel perched there in my opinion. But once again even with all these nerfs and tweaks to the NUB we NUB's just keep on clicking and fighting and growing and some of the veterans keep on complaining and trying to change it to suit them better. When we gonna get a Top 10 MPR nerf where there rewards are dropped by a certain percent? then we could eliminate the NUB completely and then slow NUB's growth where they still have a chance to catch up and the veterans can keep on trying to stay on top. This subject is tired and really need to be put away already.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 23 2005 4:36 AM EDT

Hey, I'd like to take at least some credit for lowering the NUB... Also, I don't want it to stop there.

A very extreme example for you all. Based on a couple of comments by Jon;

“in other words, you can't expect to be near the top just because you started earlier than someone. if he works harder than you, the NUB allows him to pass you.”

“if you use 50% of your BA and I use 110%, I am working harder.”

OK. I have had 1 million potential BA available to me, and I've used 50% of that to get to 400 MPR.

A new user comes along, with a bonus that will give him the top spot if he uses all his available BA. Let's assume his total available BA has been set up to be 10. (remember, an extreme example).

If this new user spends 100% of thier BA (Compared to my measly 50%)They have far surpassed me. So they've worked harder than me by clicking 10 times?

Even if they use 50% of thier potential BA (5 versus my 500K) and equal my MPR, they have in *no* way worked anywhere as hard as me to get where I have today.

The NUB gives new players a vastly easier time to not only get to where I have, but also to surpasse me.

That is my gripe.

QBRanger September 23 2005 4:37 AM EDT

All I can say is that the NUB is like real life in one respect, people always want the short cut, they never want to earn it.

Instead of sitting down clicking away for months like the older players, people want to get to the top in 3 months or so.

{CB1}Sparticus [Screwed Justice] September 23 2005 4:41 AM EDT

Personally i dont see a problem with some form of limited bonus for new players, but when it overshadows the benefits of being supporter, whats the point of even supporting a game who caters to non-supporters. A free Tat is nothing compared to advancing your PR beyond reasonable bounds in next to no time at all.

I got my supportership when CB2 launched and play a bit, but with no bonus except for Clan bonus's it'll take me 4 more months to make what some noobs made in a month..

If you can't understand the problem there your stupid and blind.

a compromise would be to lower the bonuses, and void the bonuses once a certain PR is reached or amount of time has elapsed.

Brick September 23 2005 4:43 AM EDT

but then Ranger if we play for 9 months trying to catch up to you, by the time we do get to your score you will have a much stronger character and will always be higher than us because the rewards would be practically the same

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 23 2005 4:49 AM EDT

I don't think either Ranger nor myself want that to be the situation. but the current solution is flawed and exploitable.

Lu Bu[willsue] September 23 2005 5:10 AM EDT

people talking about lowering them and getting rid of them...but why not make limits on a certain tye of time they can be at this level and that level?

EXAMPLE: cant get a _____score before three months?

Undertow September 23 2005 5:11 AM EDT

Bull, due to the severe lack of spacing in your post presumably caused by head trauma, I didn't read all of it.

however, the first part on the increased cost of BA purchase is WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.

He corrected a BUG there. You were never SUPPOSED to get BA that cheap. He FIXED that.

Undertow September 23 2005 5:15 AM EDT

And your full of points LIKE that one.

The "Mikel" bug was ALSO just that. A BUG. It wasn't "tweaked" or "nerfed" or "edited" it was stomped into the floor board and then given that weird swivel foot treatment you give that kind of bug.

The shortned NUB was given only to those other people that used that bug. So no complaining, you were only put back WHERE YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE.

CoolWater September 23 2005 5:18 AM EDT

My suggestion is to give everyone a certain percentage of NUB, new players or old players. As you get higher in rank, you receive lower percentage. If you drop in rank, you start to get NUB. That would be fair to everyone I guess.

Jerk September 23 2005 8:16 AM EDT

Ok Undertow I will work on my spacing to eliminate any difficulties you might be having reading my posts. I keep forgetting I have to have proper structure on my posts so I can turn it in and get a good grade so maybe one day I can graduate from NUBism to being a real CB player right lol.

So the shortening of my NUB was because I exploited one of these loopholes if I am understanding you correct? For every single exp point I have ever gotten from fighting I have put it to use and trained it into my minion. I didn't sit on it so as to not grow my characters MPR while my tat gained lvls and did my fighting for me so plz explain why I had a week and a half of my NUB taken away even though I have never even attempted to look for a loop hole. Heck I can remember actually making a thread asking if it was a bug or glitch that my NUB lasted as long as it was telling me since I was growing so much compared to the top players at that time. I am positive that it was answered yes that is how long it was supposed to last. I can look in old threads to try and locate it and link it in here but take my word I did indeed do it.

As for the BA cost bug fix hey thats fine that you were able to fix something that wasn't calculating properly the right game rewards. As for my BA doubling in cost it was irritating having to watch 200k of my CBD evaporate just so I could do all the fights available to grow my character. I mean with eating 200k in BA cost I still managed to send at least 100k a day to repay a loan I had. And then I was blessed with constant ranting and complaining about how unfair it was that NUB's were getting this and that NUB are doing this. I mean how mature are the ppl we NUB's are supposed to model after and learn the workings of this game.

Now I give respect to the veterans here for there perserverance and their knowledge of the game itself. I have never not had a question about something answered by Ranger or Bast or even Sefton if I sent him a CM. So by no means am I saying the vets are hording their exp and knowledge from NUB's because that is hardly the case. All the NUB has to do is send a PM to one of the veterans or whatever and in my experiences that the veteran will answer them or tell them where to go to answer the question.

Now what would be wrong with perhaps trying my idea of completely eliminating the NUB and then putting some sort of a penalty of rewards for the top 10 MPR players. then none of the veterans can complain about how huge the NUB is getiting. There would be validation to the concern of phenomenal MPR growth from NUB users. If they want to rocket to top they have to click like the rest. I think by doing that it would give new players the chance to get normal rewards(thus eliminating the shell shock of the first non NUB enhance reward you get) for fighting and thus holding the reins on the big characters as to give the new players the same chance to catch the top. I know the other top 10 will shoot this idea down quickly but if the reduction in rewards will keep you from growing then how many of us 10 Biggest MPR fighters here get 10% or greater Clan bonus and maintain it. I mean if you look at top clans and you don't see BR in first place and the LLamas not right on their heels you wonder what happened. So basically the top players would have to maintain there mass fights to keep their Clan Bonus high enough to keep the new players from passing them. And then if they do indeed get past it will be simply because the new player simply out fought and out strategized the veteran. So that would get rid of any chance for the veterans a chance to complain about getting passed and then the new player will have put in the 300k fights or whatever it takes to actually be considered an active player her. Just an idea so go ahead and flame away lol.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 23 2005 8:21 AM EDT

"Now what would be wrong with perhaps trying my idea of completely eliminating the NUB and then putting some sort of a penalty of rewards for the top 10 MPR players."

Dude, I've been campaigning for something like this for ages! ;)

Jerk September 23 2005 8:28 AM EDT

Well perhaps it would be considered to get rid of this constant NUB whine fest

Derek September 23 2005 8:39 AM EDT

I don't think the top 10 MPR players should get penalised just because they are at the top of CB.

As a general rule people who play the most should be at the top of a game, and people who don't play as much shouldn't be. As Jonathan has stated the NUB is just there to allow those people who discovered the game later the opportunity to take the place in the game that they would've had they started on day 1.

The problem occurs when NUB users take a place higher than that of older users that play MORE than the new user. With the nerf to the NUB hopefully this has been corrected for. I cannot see any NUB users that are high up in the rankings that wouldn't be where they are if they had started on day 1 and played as much as they did with the NUB. Mikel looks to be a fairly dedicated player that probably deserves to be in the top 10 MPR.

Remember you have to keep playing after the NUB expires to keep up with the top players so if someone is less active than you, you will eventually pass them regardless of the NUB.

Jerk September 23 2005 8:50 AM EDT

Well my point is that since the NUB idea doesn't seem to be fair to some of the veterans then why not do a 180 dgree turn and instead of helping the bottom hold the top back???

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] September 23 2005 8:59 AM EDT

In my view all the talk of getting to the top etc with the NUB obscures the fundamental problems. I don't care if the occasional person passes me or even gets to the top with the NUB, as as been pointed out by others before me it actually makes for a little more interest up here especially now that so many have quit.

I just don't see the game surviving it when someone such as GentlemanLoser for example who plays fairly regularly but but not hardcore realizes that he would have a bigger character than the one he has been playing day in day out for say a year if he were to start over and play a lot for a month. (not suggesting that he would do this but its got to be a large demotivator to playing)

There is also the encouragement it gives to the cheaters, I know there is an unwritten policy just to sweep these things under the carpet here and carry on living in dreamland but there you go.

Stephen Young September 23 2005 9:03 AM EDT

I hope Ranger never stops complaining about the NUB. It is a rotten little beast that needs to be squelched/canned/shot.

Down with the NUB!

(No, really... bring it down... :P)

Jerk September 23 2005 9:26 AM EDT

which my idea would do just that

QBOddBird September 23 2005 9:29 AM EDT

It simply appears to me that if enough people whine long and loud enough about a change, they get it. You got your NUB reduction, so in traditional Black Market style, lets move on to the next subject - you get one whine per week, BM style as well. Who wants new AC gloves along with the new DD gloves? *whines*

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 23 2005 9:47 AM EDT

*Sigh* I'm not whining. But RubberDuck is spot on. I've mow played constantly, albeit not hardcore, for nine months. I've been through changes, I've retrained and changed strats.

Now, someone can come along and blast past my efforts (500K MPR compared to my 400K) in a month?

What motivation is there for me to keep playing? We should just have s big notice on the front page of CB2 telling all new users how to get the most out of their NUB, and the rest of use without it pack up shop.

We can't compete.

If I say this more than once, It's not because I'm having some childish feet stamping tantrum or I want it al, it's because some seem to be blinded by either the NUB itself, or some kind of head in sand philosopy and can't see the problem.

QBsutekh137 September 23 2005 9:59 AM EDT

Here is my question: why is no one saying, "STOP WITH THE NUB POSTS!!!!!!!!" like they do every time Ranger of GL brings up a post about it. Maybe folks just haven't gotten around to reading this thread yet, but seems like a silly double-0standard that when someone against the NUB speaks up, they get flamed. When someone FOR the NUB speaks "dead horse" comments.

Lu, why did you bring this up? This is completely unprovoked. You say yourself (in all caps, no less) that this is just a game. So why did you feel the need to, out of the blue, take a stab at the veterans and essentially just write the definition of the NUB. What was your point?

Tezmac September 23 2005 10:15 AM EDT

I said something about it in Rangers last post concerning a forum ban for the next moron to bring up the NUB for the thousandth time, I was subsequently flamed for it. People just want to go on whining...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 23 2005 10:15 AM EDT

STOP WITH THE PRO NUB POSTZ!!!111oneoneeleven


QBJohnnywas September 23 2005 10:24 AM EDT

This is definitely a topic that requires drunken posting, wheres the pub?

I haven't really concerned myself with the NUB too much. If another player has it then good luck to them. I'm not overly concerned if they have a large Morg and I don't so...

A lot of anti NUB seems to come across as whining - 'they don't have to work as hard as me, it's not fair', but the fact that it is still being debated with so many people on the anti NUB side suggests to me that there is an imbalance here. OK, if you work really hard you can climb high without it but you have to work REALLY hard, just like in CB1. And while I don't care so much what somebody else does so long as it doesn't affect me, I agree that somebody shouldn't be able to get so high so quickly with no effective work of their own really. It's early days for the changes to it yet so I'll not make any firm judgements. But it is having a bad effect on the community and that's definitely not a good thing....

QBOddBird September 23 2005 10:39 AM EDT

There is an imbalance - but I don't think it is a balance across the board. Only the smarter new players are taking full advantage of the NUB....otherwise, it would have been nerfed long ago, when all the new players that joined up hit 500k MPR in a month.

In other words, it does its job with most new players - gets em to an "on their feet" position to play from. However, I understand the feelings toward a new player being able to hit such high MPR so quickly - I just feel that no-one is keeping in mind that those are special cases.

And yes, people need to quit bringing this up. It is OLD. We decided that the top half of the CB community doesn't like it, and the bottom half does. Agree to disagree, and if there's a problem, as I have said before, Jon'll do something about it - it *is* changemonth, after all.

{CB1}Sparticus [Screwed Justice] September 23 2005 1:49 PM EDT

This post was created so Lu_Bu_2 could justify why he needs a bonus but the vets/old supporters don't.

Personally, im tired of netting between 6-22 exp per battle. At this rate ill be at 200k by Christmas.

What a load of bull.

I now realise this-------> supportership was a waste of my time.

Drow September 23 2005 8:54 PM EDT

i dont know too much what the fuss is about. i've been playing a couple months, still have my NUB, but i've barely even been able to get to even as much as 200k score. i did get a tat to help, but no mentor help, though that may be a reason i doubt its the only reason. some may have rocketed up there with much help from others, there are still many, like me, that dont get so far even with the NUB.

! Love Barney September 23 2005 9:01 PM EDT

i started in the last days of july ( i believe). . .look at me. almost 400k mpr ;)

I know you're mad (you know who you are)

flamewind September 23 2005 9:03 PM EDT

The NUB [rate] should be proportionate to the highest MPR! Like as you get higher MPR with a NUB, its effects decreases. Until at some point it ends. But this might not happen so eh.
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