Idea for a vet bonus (in General)


WeaponX September 30 2005 5:51 PM EDT

Ok i understand this topic has been beaten to death but please here me out.

I understand the problem with giving the NUB to vets is USD abuse but how about just giving us the XP and regular cash rewards. This bonus would mirror the NUB in length. the way it is now it is pointless to ever start a new char. Thoughts?

QBRanger September 30 2005 5:52 PM EDT

I personally think its a great and very fair idea.

AdminJonathan September 30 2005 5:55 PM EDT

Worth thinking about.

Characters are worth crap anyway, so I don't think that would be a real problem.

QBOddBird September 30 2005 5:57 PM EDT

It has my vote. I think this is a grand idea.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 September 30 2005 5:57 PM EDT

I like this idea a lot :D

Hopefully this (or something like it) will be put up on the drawing board for future changemonths :)

[Tranquility]-USDForger [Azn Forgesmith] September 30 2005 6:07 PM EDT

After being explained by MegamanV his idea. I have few thoughts myself.
1. Most of ex-camper who was busying making all the $U$S$D before now is useless with low mpr character (this would help them most). {I am not surprised with the idea from the poster}
2. Tattoo level: if it's same with NUB it could helps new "character" use it and/or instant it (for whatever reason)
3. How to manage BA cost vs. regular cash rewards vs. exp earned?
to be continued...

QBRanger September 30 2005 6:09 PM EDT

TMP, for point 2,

Thats what a max tattoo level is for.

Special J September 30 2005 6:16 PM EDT

I like it!

But I like everything ;)

WeaponX September 30 2005 6:16 PM EDT

for #3 TMP without the extra cash it should stay the same.

QBRanger September 30 2005 6:22 PM EDT

And TMP, for point 1.

Whether or not MM was a camper is not relevant. Its the fact he has come up with a great idea for an equal playing field for ALL players.

Nixon Jibfest September 30 2005 6:46 PM EDT

Wow. wish i thought of this myself.

[Tranquility]-USDForger [Azn Forgesmith] September 30 2005 6:57 PM EDT

I have a direct question toward Jon who took out camping. What did you think most camper would do when you did that? I ask this 'cause i am sure the game maker thought this through for every changes he did/does.
1. Suffer?
2. Used USD earned and put back to the game for buying character, gear?
3. create Multi? (no accusation, just a possibility)
4. quit?

WeaponX September 30 2005 7:01 PM EDT

TMP please stay out of my thread or add something useful

QBRanger September 30 2005 7:05 PM EDT

TMP,

Please get over the camper thing. Im sure you are aware I dislike camping as much as anyone.

However, the idea Megaman has given is fair to all. To punish campers now because they did/did not make USD on the game back then is unfair. CB2 is a growing game with changes. However, IMO, I feel it should be fair to all.

This idea of MM's is such an idea. Good for both new players and older players.

I am sure there are points to think through more, but as an idea, I think it is outstanding.

[Tranquility]-USDForger [Azn Forgesmith] September 30 2005 7:30 PM EDT

I was just asking questions about stuff i Don't know. Or is this a old player only thread? I didn't want to have a "You dont know crap" Fireball coming at me.

QBRanger September 30 2005 7:36 PM EDT

TMP, there are ways of asking questions without making it obvious your insulting Megaman or any other player.

Try to find a few before your next post.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 30 2005 7:40 PM EDT

"Worth thinking about. "

Please do! :D Giving a newly created character (by anybody) the possibility to reach the top (with effort of course!) is all I've been campainging for!!

:D

QBBarzooMonkey September 30 2005 7:54 PM EDT

Brilliant!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 30 2005 8:12 PM EDT

Wow, maybe there is some hope for Israel and Palestine.

QBOddBird September 30 2005 8:19 PM EDT

Yay! So if this happens, will you come back, GL? *crosses fingers*

ywnwraith September 30 2005 8:57 PM EDT

So would the BA purchase price be the inflated price new user bonus players pay, or the nonbonus price?

QBsutekh137 September 30 2005 9:14 PM EDT

So let me get this straight... I can transfer all my stuff to a friend, reset myself, then start a NUB where money bonus was normal and experience bonus was NUB-inflated? Then get my RoE and AGs back from the friend. So...why wouldn't everyone do that? Especially people with diminished rewards at top? Consider it a massive unlearn. *smile* Folks would be able to re-concentrate themselves (I bet a LOT of folks would start 1-2 minion, tops).

It seems quite interesting, and makes the choice a worthy one...

Karmic Mishap [Soup Ream] September 30 2005 9:16 PM EDT

Sutekh... who said anything about restricting the items the character has? The max tatoo and NW/PR link already do that just fine....

HunterFrei September 30 2005 9:27 PM EDT

I really like this idea. But the point brought up about the BA costs, i'm sure they would cost a little bit more but not quite as much as someone with the actual NUB.

QBsutekh137 September 30 2005 9:29 PM EDT

KM, a lot of items can be very powerful (especially at the low end) with very little net worth...a decent ToE, RoE, Corn, AGs, CoI...those don't have to have much net worth to make a big difference.

Still, considering that as I tihnk about it I am not sure I would do it or not, it must be a pretty good idea. *smile* Tough choices are always fun!

QBsutekh137 September 30 2005 9:32 PM EDT

The BA purchase price is a very tough one. I can tell it is a good question by looking at who asked it. *smile* Maybe the price should stay high to offset the fact that a veteran probably has nice equipment saved up? *shrug* I am not sure how high the NUB BA purchase price is?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 30 2005 9:35 PM EDT

OB, you bet I would! :D I owuldn't ever get to the top, I;m not that dedicated! But at least there's the opportunity if I wanted to!

Sute, if there needs to be limits, then maybe an item restriction can be worked on like the Max tattoo level. This would be more difficult to implement, but I'm sure it could be done.

But I'm not sure there would be.

Who at the top wouldn't want Ranger or Dwag to go "You know, I'll think I'll start over with a two minion team. I should be able to work my way back up here, (especially if you keep your old items, which is why there would be no cash increase) but it will take time. Time someone else is at the top, is able to solidify their postion and who would have to be beaten to regain the number one spot again!

:D

Everyone wins!

QBOddBird September 30 2005 9:40 PM EDT

They really do win, as the person trying to see how far they could get back up with this bonus would have to retire their top character so that buying BA wouldn't be so expensive. ;)

Gilgamesh2090 [NCB Shop] September 30 2005 9:45 PM EDT

I will have to take the other side the past 20 posts have not taken.

When Megaman says "how about just giving us the XP and regular cash rewards. This bonus would mirror the NUB in length." What would this accomplish?

Veterans have hardly need of any CB$ unless they want to:

1. Sell for USD
2. Upgrade/Forge/BA
3. Loan

To a veteran who has already acquired all the best armor, weapons, and tattoos in the game money can't be the number 1 priority of them.

Instead a veteran "...can transfer all my stuff to a friend, reset myself, then start a NUB where money bonus was normal and experience bonus was NUB-inflated? Then get my RoE and AGs back from the friend. So...why wouldn't everyone do that? Especially people with diminished rewards at top?" -SutekhTDestroyer.

Thus the regular money factor would hardly matter.

Now, the proposed veteran bonus would give veterans the experience inflation the NUB gives to new users. A new user come into this game as, as new user of course, and have no prior knowledge of the mechanics of the game and no experience with skills strengths/weaknesses nor minion strats and allocation of EXP.
A veteran, on the other hand, could very well reset their account but that would not reset their experience they have gathered in 4+ months. A veteran will have a strategy, will know where to allocate points, and will know the mechanics and have experience in the game. A veteran will not be as likely to change their strategy in midgame as I have 4 times - each time learning a new mechanic and gaining understanding in the game. A veteran will focus their attempt to get as much out of the 4 months the NUB allows thus creating a character far more powerful than they have had since they will not take 5% penalties for skill changes, 12% penalties for STR and DX and 15% penalties for HP.

A veteran can create a much more powerful character in 4 months than any new user could in the same amount of time - even greater than Ilovehellokitty.

To a veteran, getting less money and the same experience as a new user is a great tradeoff since money has far less value to them than money does to a new user with no ultimate armor. Veterans are called veterans for a reason. Veterans have experience with the mechanics of the game - they know how the game works. The NUB in place right now is to give new users room to change their strategies and hone them for later. A veteran knows their strategy and would focus on it entirely.

If a VUB was put in place what would be accomplished? The veterans would make a new character and keep their uber weapons and armor and create even more uber characters in the game. A new user would certainly have no chance to get to the top. That is what the NUB is supposed to do right? Give hope to new users to compete with the vets?

WeaponX September 30 2005 9:47 PM EDT

basically it boils down to this. the reason i say they're should be no restriction on items is simple, USD. if a player did this and just bought that stuff they have it if you restrict it it makes USD even stronger. as far as tattoos and items the NW/PR and max tattoo restrict it alot as is. also if the top players did the wouldn't that make the length and or % weaker?

WeaponX September 30 2005 9:50 PM EDT

gilgamesh i think you need to truely think. realize the stronger the vets get the stronger the NUB gets. that part i know for sure

Quark September 30 2005 9:50 PM EDT

Then give 90% of NUB EXP to vets (the vet discount factor). But there's not a lot of point bothering about switching items - let them keep them

QBOddBird September 30 2005 10:02 PM EDT

The idea of basing the VUB on the NUB simply wouldn't work.

A better choice would be 50% of the NUB. Fact is, since the NUB is based on the highest MPR (correct me if I'm wrong), then if a vet uses the VUB to get incredibly far in a short amount of time, the NUB increases. When that happens, the VUB increases as well, and another vet uses it to fly to the top. The NUB would grow to enormous proportions in a matter of 6 months or so, and new users who joined after that point would love it for the length of their NUB, and then quit when they lost all those extra rewards - it would have to be discouraging to see 2k$ and 500exp a fight disappear, never to come back.

Rather, the VUB should be a set percent increase, not based at all upon the NUB. If they base off each other, they both increase exponentially, which is not good for the game. I'm expecting Jonathan would agree with me here.

However, I do think the vet bonus is an excellent idea, and since Jon is great at coming up with balanced equations/solutions to implementations like this, I'm sure he could find a good way to put it in ;)

To those who read this post, please give your thoughts on the matter. If you only read part, go back, read it again, and then comment.

WeaponX September 30 2005 10:02 PM EDT

people are forgetting if say Dawg did this A he would be waiting months to use his gear B he may never even surpass Krang's trajectory had he kept playing

Quark September 30 2005 10:05 PM EDT

Nonlinear MPR growth makes this a reasonable option, whatever ratio of NUB MPR growth is applied.

QBOddBird September 30 2005 10:06 PM EDT

No, not at the rate people grow with the NUB. He'd be back up where he's at now within 2 months, I can promise you. He'd be further by the end of his VUB, and then the NUB would increase again. Assuming the VUB was based on the NUB %, that would increase the VUB, and (say Ranger, for instance) would then start over and use the VUB. It'd go past DAWG's new character with the new increased VUB, and then the NUB would increase.

In programming, we call this an infinite loop. ;) It's bad there, and its bad here.

Quark September 30 2005 10:07 PM EDT

Whenver you tire, restart a new character with the current MPR growth of the NUB - ends up pushing you into the 7 BA refresh rate fairly quickly.

Quark September 30 2005 10:09 PM EDT

Graph I love you, Mikel, Krang, and Apocalypse book. The latter two are into a linear range, and Mikel & kitty are flattening into a similar curve

WeaponX September 30 2005 10:14 PM EDT

your fooling yourself if you think it gives a large advantage to players currently at the top. look at kitty. she will barely hit 600k MPR in her 2nd month meanwhile Ranger (sorry if this was secret but) is saving xp once he trains he'll be around 900k MPR by my estimate. by the time kitty reaches 900k MPR ranger will likely be at 1mill or slightly over. kitty by this time has no more NUB and i would have no VUB. it's only meant to get you close

Ilovehellokitty September 30 2005 10:16 PM EDT

exactly, if you think i will be #1 mpr by the end of this year, that person is simply living out of reality. I Will not even get any close.

QBOddBird September 30 2005 10:20 PM EDT

If you try, I honestly think you can. And as for her barely hitting 600k by her 2nd month, have you noticed that she's at 555k MPR? in 18 days it'll be her 2nd month - you think she's going to take nearly 3 weeks to get 50k MPR? She'll grow and if she had started off with vet experience, would probably vie for the top. That is my point with the VUB. This would shoot them to the top as well, but with their experience, they'll catch the top - increase the NUB - and you see the loop. If not, then it would be completely fine to base the VUB on the NUB - but I'm feeling like with veteran experience, my theory probably would occur.

Quark September 30 2005 10:21 PM EDT

Kitty's an example of trying to maximize the NUB - she hasn't levelled off yet but she'll hit the same MPR growth rate as Ranger in not too long

Then it's a game of attrition - who is forced to retrain / gets lower rewards - not NUB any more.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 30 2005 10:21 PM EDT

The BA purchase cost!!! :D Even better!

Ranger could keep his existing massive character and start a new one, but he'd be paying soo much for BA, without getting any increased cash rewards that this would be a non event.

You would have to retire your top character in order to make this an option worth taking!

:D

(Sory to keep using you as an example Ranger!)

Ilovehellokitty September 30 2005 10:23 PM EDT

Unless one knows math well. At this rate, i predict by graph that my curves (of course is more attractive than Ranger's) met up with Ranger's around 1.4million mpr

Quark September 30 2005 10:28 PM EDT

Kitty - are you allowing for slowdown when your MPR goes up? If you burn BA at Mikel's rate, you'll grow at his rate (not Rangers, given his lousy rewards). I think it would be higher

Ilovehellokitty September 30 2005 10:35 PM EDT

given same pace at clicking. It's almost impossible to talk about 1.4mil mpr. My rewards is not great either. As far as I see playing a lot this week, without buying anything. I can't even afford buying BA. The weekly income has already became negative. I had to beg for ammo a few times (ask Aupstar). Copying Dawg's strategy is a bad start. I suggest mages :P. What i am trying to say is, I am not able to get there.

Wonderpuff September 30 2005 11:22 PM EDT

Kitty has hit a NW wall with her strategy.

WeaponX October 1 2005 11:26 AM EDT

can i get more help polishing this idea. any comment would help... unless your TMP

QBOddBird October 1 2005 12:43 PM EDT

Bribing Jon right about now to implement this seems to be a good polisher. If you want, we can all donate cash to my storage char, Safety Deposit Box, and everything that goes to him will be sold for USD and sent to Jon. If everyone donated 200k, that'd be a pretty good bribe. Just a thought, since: "Feel free to bribe me to implement your feature. I'm more interested in making improvements to fundamental gameplay, but I'm willing to do more boring work for $20 an hour. Character retirement was the first feature written under this sort of Bribe Jonathan agreement."

AdminJonathan October 1 2005 1:07 PM EDT

was that still in the faq?

BALEETED

{CB3}-HR22 October 1 2005 1:13 PM EDT

Great Idea, I would finally be able to make my Dream team without having the thought of never being able to catch back up.

Biscuitback October 1 2005 1:14 PM EDT

i'm with mega on this one too. i made a character about a month ago to start over, then i realized it'll never be anything, and my rewards were pointless. i had to switch back to my main.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] October 1 2005 2:35 PM EDT

I think you might want to limit the amount of times you could start over with the VUB within a given timespan as was suggested before in some of the other threads putting forward ideas for a NUB style bonus for vets.

WeaponX October 1 2005 2:42 PM EDT

every 4 months sound good?

Duke October 1 2005 4:14 PM EDT

I am looking foward to be the strongest players.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] October 1 2005 6:09 PM EDT

I pray nightly that Duke never becomes plural.

[SoM]CupofJoe [Peoples Bank of Carnage] October 1 2005 6:39 PM EDT

Instead of having a Vet Bonus and a NUB could we not just have a User Bonus.

It would work as follows:

1. A calculation would be done daily or weekly per character identifying the difference between the highest level character and all of the rest.

Example: Highest Level Character - Character(1) = NW differance(1)
Highest Level Character - Character(2) = NW differance(2) And so on

2. Another calculation would be done to determine the bonus that the characters would need to reach the highest level character in three months with steady, constant playing.

Example: NW difference(1)/ Bonus Finder = User Bonus(1)
NW difference(2) / Bonus Finder = User Bonus(2) And so on

3. Everyone would have a different bonus except for the very highest level character, who would have no bonus. The User Bonus would change daily or weekly, so everyone would have a chance to reach the top with steady play at any time. No one would be out of the game to the top ever. It would all just matter who really worked harder for it. Lastly, the closer you are to the top the smaller your bonus would be. Meaning you could do it but you would have to work really hard for it.

What do you guys think?

WeaponX October 1 2005 7:39 PM EDT

As interesting as that idea is why would we want to make Ranger or whoever is at the top miserable? Personally i do not think that is a good idea SoM

QBRanger October 1 2005 7:42 PM EDT

Why complicate things?

Megaman's idea is simple, easy to institute and effective at letting both new and old players have a chance.

Bmagnety October 1 2005 9:30 PM EDT

yes its a awsome idea......

another that im sure has been brought up & probly abused would be IF you could delete you account to start a new one, maybe with admin help to reduce the abuse

WeaponX October 2 2005 7:59 AM EDT

don't just say it can be abused. honestly i doubt it can with normal cash rewards but if you believe it can i want the scenario in which you see it being abused.

Jordan23 October 2 2005 11:25 AM EDT

Its a great idea...
Don't see any abusing theory for this one.Just hope that will not be thrashed like the other ideas. Maybe the only thing i can see its the value of a 500K MPR character will drop to almost nothing.

maulaxe October 2 2005 2:50 PM EDT

Jordan: as the value of high MPR chars drops, the faster it will be to simply buy one and do a complete retrain than to use the VUB. it evens out.

Special J October 2 2005 3:01 PM EDT

Remove character transfers, add the VuB. With the VuB, no one would really need to buy characters anymore.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 2 2005 3:11 PM EDT

Just don't call it the VUB or Vet bonus. We should be driving this sort of wedge between Old and new players. We're one community. I don't know, call it the new charcater bonus or something.

:)

Duke October 2 2005 3:12 PM EDT

How the cost of buying BA will look like?

Jordan23 October 2 2005 5:50 PM EDT

Depend of how long the VUB will be, i think that will be better to start a new character, play 1 month ,hit the 500k mpr like Kitty and continue with the VUB instead of simply buy the 500K MPR character and don't benefit of the VUB.
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