Lack of interest in Black Market (relatively)??? (in General)

Nixon Jibfest October 27 2005 9:04 AM EDT

-- There are only 89 total votes in the Black Market total right now.
-- This includes 2 weeks of voting.
-- I'm guessing that CB2 has a lot eligible voters who simply do not participate in the BM.

1. Why are players not voting?
2. How do we get them to vote?

onlyyouknow October 27 2005 9:07 AM EDT

Probably because rares are already spawning in auctions itself and it takes a shorter time to end the auctions. Currently, blackmarket takes 4 days to complete which is a long wait for us.

Mr Bones October 27 2005 9:13 AM EDT

1. Why are players not voting?

Players who have no chance of winning a auction may not bother to vote.
Players who don't need what is about to spawn may not bother to vote
The 4 day wait is to long.

2. How do we get them to vote?

Fine players who don't vote ( That will be popular)
Banned from fighting until they have voted ( That will be really popular)
Cut the auctions to 48 hours.

QBJohnnywas October 27 2005 9:20 AM EDT

I try and vote every week, but I only do it to support this particular system. And with the introduction of rares directly into auction the BMV does seem to be a little 'old'.

The BMV used to give some people the chance to purchase rares at lower than normal market prices. Otherwise you needed a lot of cash or to get good at camping.

Prices on rares don't seem to be that much lower than previous but because of the amount that spawn you stand a much better chance of getting a bargain.

There's also a lot of new players who are cash rich patience poor and so don't need/want to wait a week when they can hit the normal auction racks or go to FS/WTB.

I think that the best thing to do would be to merge BMV into the normal spawning - in other words get rid of it....

QBJohnnywas October 27 2005 9:26 AM EDT

Sorry, typing at work.... had to cut that last post short.

I think the question to be asked is

'Do we need the Black Market?' What is it's purpose now?

Nixon Jibfest October 27 2005 10:27 AM EDT

With the BM, players have control over what spawns. Technically, we can get a ton of Corns out on the market, perhaps 2x per week or more if all supporters voted.

I'd like to see the auction time be reduced to 24 hours though.

IndependenZ October 27 2005 10:40 AM EDT

You're forgetting something here: We already got a pair of DB's out of the Black Market this week. Those votes don't count anymore, since the item has left the black market. There's now a total of 93 votes on unspawned items. Add 83 votes from the DB's and you've got 176 people who voted. That isn't so bad, right?

I do agree on the fact that Black Market-auctions take too long. Those five days could just as well be two days.

chappy [Soup Ream] October 27 2005 10:44 AM EDT

I agree about the BM auctions taking too long ... 2 days at most should be plenty long enough. Maybe there should be some items that only spawn into BM auctions ?? Just trying to think of a way to make the BM auctions worth taking part in..

QBJohnnywas October 27 2005 10:45 AM EDT

I understand the control element - that and the lower prices - is the reason I still vote. But I think you'll find that a lot of people who aren't voting are probably not voting because they're not interested in the items that are being voted for. If you look through the past auctions for the past 6 months greater demand has been for mage gear.

But a lot of the newer people who can afford to buy in these auctions - will be at a stage where they are looking for tank gear. A lot of them will be voting for 'selfish' reasons rather than the group votes that have happened previously.

I agree that the time in auction is too long. But I also think that if an item is spawned from the BMV it shouldn't spawn in the auctions regularly. Why bother adding your vote for a BoTh, for instance, in the BMV if one then pops up in the store in the normal manner? Control like this may make voting more attractive?

Nixon Jibfest October 27 2005 6:12 PM EDT

Pair of Alatar's Gloves 33.7%

Independenz, I did consider those votes. Most of the people who voted for the DBs have placed their votes again.

I'd be interested in knowing what percentage of active eligible players actually vote. How many supporters are there?

david71159 October 27 2005 7:56 PM EDT

The Items get bid up very high so it is hard to buy, probally because these items can be stored in the storage units and not sent back out. This keeps them rare. I'm nutural on the system because I see both sides of the argument; it bugs me now but when I'm able to develop storage units, I probally like it. You really need a functional spell checker for those of us who don't spell great.

Special J October 27 2005 8:28 PM EDT

The spell checker is fine, it tells you what you spell incorrectly. It is not a spelling correction for those who choose not to practice English.

And setting back items on "storage units" is a non issue, campers are done for already.

AdminNightStrike October 29 2005 2:37 AM EDT

I personally odn't bother voting for the same reason I don't bother with the normal auctions. The price gouging is insane.

Special J October 29 2005 2:44 AM EDT


Players bidding an item up is NOT gouging.

Think about it..

Undertow October 29 2005 2:44 AM EDT

I'm SO CLOSE to done on my loan... then maybe I'll bid.

Why don't people vote in black market? Same reason I haven't seen an item lottery ever go through lately, no one wants those odds. A 1 in 83 chance at _____? No thank you, especially when it's not like I have any cash anyway.

Pay people to vote.

Karmic Mishap [Soup Ream] October 29 2005 3:10 PM EDT

I've got a better idea than paying people to vote...

What if black market items were just _given_ to a random person who voted for them? Sort of a game-run contest with a really easy entry... maybe it could even cost money to vote. Just a thought...

AdminNightStrike October 29 2005 11:45 PM EDT

mrwuss, the gouging I referred to is similar to a tactic used in poker. If I have piles of cash, and I really want an item, I can just bid more than your available cash and be guaranteed to win. That's how auctions are supposed to work. It's fine that people do that.

However, knowing that that will go on, why should I bother?

Special J October 30 2005 12:04 AM EDT

Because at some point in time you will have money, and unless you show new players after you that it is good to bid, then you willl be in the same boat as us.

Gilgamesh2090 [NCB Shop] October 30 2005 12:12 AM EDT

I'll take the payment option - I will vote for whatever you want me to if you pay me XD

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 30 2005 12:37 AM EDT

i was reading the above posts and thinking along the same lines as karmic mishap. i doubt jon would ever give all the bm spawns away, however it would probably increase voting somewhat if even a small percentage of the bm items were just randomly given to someone who voted for it instead of spawning in auctions. one out of ten wouldn't hurt the economy i would think. one out of four or five would be great though.

this might also help fill the "it's your lucky day" feelings many of us would get from those rare times we found a rare item in the store.

AdminNightStrike November 1 2005 12:06 PM EST

I like that idea a lot. I'd vote all the time if that was the case. Also, I do like the idea of selling votes. I'd sell mine.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 1 2005 12:20 PM EST

problem with the BMVG is that it doesn't show up in the top 5 topics anymore....

QBJohnnywas November 1 2005 12:24 PM EST

I vote on the BM no matter what - when I remember! Doesn't matter if the item wanted is something that I either don't want or won't be able to afford. Your vote costs you nothing. You lose nothing by voting. The only inconvenience is a chatmail telling you the item is now in auctions once it spawns.

So there is no reason not to vote....

Sukotto [lookingglas] November 1 2005 12:44 PM EST

Jon doesn't like gambling, therefore he will not start giving away the BM spawns for free.

I generally follow the BMVG. Recently however, it's become a mish-mash of people shouting for the item they want instead of a concerted effort to spawn items that the whole group cares about.

That confusion, coupled by my general feeling of uselessness (why vote for an item I know I can never afford at auction) makes me increasingly less likely to bother to vote.

Maelstrom November 1 2005 12:59 PM EST

It pointless to be selfish with the BM, since if you vote just for the item you want, it will never spawn, and your vote is wasted. Only when we get organized and vote together for specific items will they spawn.

If you don't vote because you can't afford the item, you're also being selfish: other people can afford it, and you can help them. The "classic" reason for newbies to vote is that, when users with money get a new rare, they will often sell their old item, which the newbies can afford.

As for not voting at all, it's simply pointless. You lose nothing when you vote, but you can help others if you do.

And Sukotto, Pat Sajak's Brain regularly makes posts asking people what items people want spawned in the BM, and makes the BMVG posts based on those requests. The BMVG is not based on what just a few people want.

Special J November 1 2005 1:23 PM EST

Mael called it just as I see it too, selfishness in this game, and the proof is in this thread.

There is a level where you compete, and there is a level where we are a community, at least some of us are a community.

Sukotto [lookingglas] November 1 2005 1:39 PM EST

Maelstrom: I have voted almost every week since Jon created the BM. I usually follow whomever's running the voting guide because I want to help the community as a whole.

There come a time however, after so many auctions, when you begin to stop caring as much. It becomes a hassle to go look for the bmvg, then scan the thread to see what's currently being voted for (not always the item listed in the first post), then return home, then load the BM, then vote. .. Then watch a top 10 character buy the item.

I find it somewhat discouraging.

Sukotto [lookingglas] November 1 2005 1:44 PM EST


It seems to me like you have a firm idea of an item to vote for. Then, once it's spawned we just kind of look around until someone shouts loudly enough to get us working on the next item.

My impression might not actually be what really happens of course. I don't actually read the thread, just kind of skim it long enough to see what we're all supposed to be going for.

AdminShade November 1 2005 2:42 PM EST

so back in the days when i ran the BMVG it still was good?

hmmm :\

[SoM]CupofJoe [Peoples Bank of Carnage] November 1 2005 2:48 PM EST

Another concept that is lost by some is the fact that even though you may not be able to afford it now, the more of an item there is the less expensive it will become.

Imagine the price of an ELB or some other high-end item if everyone had two.
I know that is unrealistic but the same principles apply.

NSFY November 1 2005 3:08 PM EST

Bah! Socialist harpies! There is no place for you in MY community!
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