Multi: BCMoto / thefuji / Emin3nt (in Public Record)

Banned thefuji and Emin3nt.

Unfortunately BCMoto had sold out before being discovered so there is nothing to reset.

Wasn't thefuji suppose to be BCMoto's son or something along those lines?

Emin3nt was his son wasn't he?

thefuji and Emin3nt were indeed his sons.

Remember that just because the were a multi doesn't mean they were one person. If they were running eachothers BA, that's a multi too.

Ouch, stain on BCMoto's name....

you're a wonderful person

- edited and fined by Shade

I'll second that

He gets my vote.

*waves his hand like a jedi*
this is not the thread you seek...
there are no flames in front of you
your fingers do not burn to respond

Why are the non-pg comments not being punished in this thread? Obviously the admins are not going to call a person a multi unless they have proof.

Fined kryuk for his un PG.

Many people knew that moto's sons played, I had spoken with them from time to time on cb1, so I'd like to see the "proof" they have. I'll leave my response to this banning at that.

I'd love to know why as well, i know one way to find multi, which i will obviously not say but I'm sure that one was checked out when everyone knew Emin3nt was his Son. So i doubt that way was the deciding factor.

If I explained how we caught people who cheat then it would give others more information on how to avoid detection in the future.

I understand why people are asking to see proof when someone is caught but it's not in the best interests of the community for this information to be made public.

For what's it worth, G Beee and I did discuss this in PM and Jon was informed by email before this post (and underlying actions) was made.

I proposed a good amount of multis to G_Bee before and he denied many of them. Even though it was obvious to me but to G_Bee, he takes his work very seriously and only reset/ban when he has clear proof. For that, I know he is a very careful person. The ban of BCMoto is a shock to many people including me. However, I always trust G_Bee in his clear judgement.

wow quite a shock.

@ Haterz - If you trust his judgements so much then why do you still use that pic when they clearly still haven't been banned for being multis. If you truly did trust his judgment then you would remove that picture and stop making accusations.

i might be new here but when you ban someone with such an obvious following (especially after he made that post criticizing the GM) some form of proof should be seen by all.

wow Blackheart, that's the most logical thing I've heard in a million years...however, it's unlikely to happen here, the methods used to tracking multis are limited, and depended on heavily, so they don't advertise how they do what they do.

i get that but from reading the responses here i gather this is no ordinary case. couple that with the fact that he recently criticized the boss.. it just smells fishy to me and personally i would like to be sure it was done fairly and no i don't trust everything every mod says especially being that i don't know any of them. if that makes me a bad guy well so be it.

criticizing Jonathan has nothing to do with him being banned, it's stupid to think it would be.

might be stupid to you but to a guy who just walked in it is a very logical question

Shade: while you've been around for long enough to believe that things like that wouldn't happen here, others don't have your experience. It's only stupid to be suspicious if you're sure about the managment. Those of us in the US are quite familar with paranoid leadership attacking those who question decisions.

Thread closed, we catch multis the same way every time.

If you want to complain, do it every time we do our job, or better yet keep your opinion to yourself as it is pointless to argue this in public.

I've opened this thread again not because I think Special J was wrong in his concerns with where it was going, but because I believe that it's better to get things out in the open and not censor users who have a genuine addition to make.
I understand that given the acrimonious manner in which the now infamous "farewell" thread developed there is an element of players who feel this was some kind of conspiracy get back at BCMoto. That's not the case. It was myself who contacted Jon and not the other way around. It was me who approached Bartjan for confirmation regarding the problem and indeed without the help of Bart then I may have missed some of the finer detail. To question the integrity of this decision is to question my own integrity and whereas you're free to do so I can assure you that given the evidence I have seen and the experience I have in searching for multis you need look no further than the names in subject title for "questionable integrity".

I will leave this thread open in the hope that it develops in an appropriate manner. I am not above criticism however please don't let this thread degenerate into a slanging match based on unsubstantiated fiction otherwise I will close it again. I genuinely appreciate that my evidence is also unsubstantiated to the vast majority of the audience however I have already explained why this must be so and make no further apologies for it.

I as an admin do not want to foster a "them and us" atmosphere either on the forums or in the chat rooms. It's unavoidable that the majority of our posts can be seen in a negative manner as a result of helping to "police" Carnage Blender however I'm a player (albeit a poor one) just as much as anyone else.

blackheart and novice: it probably was wrong of me to use the word stupid so sorry for using that wording.

As a normal player with access to the forums I can say that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence to suggest multi behaviour on the part of Emin3nt. The following was from a post by Shade recruiting for Trigger Happy:

'Emin3nt, December 1 2005 12:10 AM EST
I go to school and swim-but I usually get in ~700 BA per day. I'm not a supporter and therefore can't make a favorites list to fight only clan members.

Besides that, I am a savvy player and played both CB1 and CB2 before. If you have questions about what I'm doing with my strategy (currently single tank, ~55k MPR) then shoot. '

Now how a new player could have played CB2 before without having a different account or playing on somebody else's account is fairly baffling.

I found just that one piece of (admittedly slightly circumstantial)evidence in about five minutes. And there were other things I found. All of which are readily available to a normal player with a bit of brain power.

I know emotions around this issue have been running high lately but some evidence is easy to find. I would say that given the proven track record of the admins a certain amount of trust should be afforded.

Johnny, Eminent = thefuji

he told us that yesterday in chat...

Some of us still don't use chat... ;)

GL and Johnnywas converse by means of two empty cans (or tins in their case) and a very long piece of string.

Wow, this threads back open...great.

I have come back to respond to this thread:

To suggest that BCMoto (character) was a part of 'thefuji" and "Emin3nt" is absolutely outrageous.

First: take a look at my account and see the "battles" fought etc, and you'll know that this account (currently showing "cache" as the character) has NOT been used. Accordingly: also take a look at "Seora Complex" - which is the old character that was sent to me when my son quit CB2 earlier last year.

Now: did he use his old account ('thefuji") and a NEW account "Emin3nt" as a "multi'? I don't know....but I WILL once I ask him when he gets home from school today. I WILL post an update accordingly as to what I find out from him.

In the meantime - please don't be so foolish as to think this was something that I condoned - nor had anything to do with.

If any of you do think this - it adds further justification of why I could not remain playing here. Suffice to say: there are at least plenty of those who know me well enough to know better then to think I am part of this.

As for YOU Geebee: you needed to have the courtesy to at least send me an email - it would have come to my regular email and this could have been cleared up easily.

Instead: you took it upon yourself to post it and in effect - stain MY name. Very very poor form.

Best Regards and thanks to those who gave me the "heads up" on this before it got any further.

-Keith Fujimoto
(Formerly - BCMOTO/ Maltese Cross on CB1 and Maltese Cross II on CB 2)

Way to go Moto - no-one who knew for a year (or more) thought that this was possible. It was also very positive of you to come back here and explain yourself - you didnt have to.
It just shows what kind of genuine individual you are.

Well at least the thread was open for BC to chime in.
Thanks for clearing this up.

Thank you Moto, for coming back and giving us your side of the story. I salute you, my friend.

So.. from banning fuji and Eniment, and talk of resetting BC, we go to "this user is deleted and banned from the community for the following reason: "multi" "

BC banned. After he explained himself. No warning either, according to his phone call. Why the sudden ban?

I like CB, a lot. I like the admins, they seem more than reasonable most of the time. G Beee re-opened this thread talking about disliking censorship...what about outright quelching of opposing view points. I've been trying to find some way to make some sense out of all this, and occam's razor tears it all to pieces.

It makes no sense that someone with thousands of dollars in $US tied up in the game would multi for essentially no profit, I understand G_Beee isn't making up what he sees, but at the same time isn't his perspective limited at least a little?

I don't see how it can be proved that BC had anything to do with the admitted (at least second hand to my eyes) multi of fuji. Is this is simply a blanket ban of all those on the ip or a convient way to solve a problem?

I know I'm rabble rousing (something I've tried HARD not to do, even if I've been lousy sometimes resisting the urge), but how do you want us to see the ban on BC as anything but an attempt to prevent people questioning the system? I know the admins and Jon have no responsabilty to explain themselves...but dag nabit I'd like one.

BC has been banned as a multi as is normal.

Sometimes the admins are lenient but if the multi in question continues to show no remorse and make a nuisance of himself we tend to lose patience.

Novice: the only way to avoid the occasional appearance of banning someone to squelch dissent would be to give multis carte blanche to the effect that if you're enough of a PITA to Jonathan or the admins, you'll never have to worry about that little multi habit of yours because the admins will be scared to ban you!

Sorry, but we're too aware of how incentives work, in the economic sense. We must discipline rule breakers uniformly to the best of our abilities. The best we can do is try to have admins who aren't personally involved in a dispute judge the evidence, which is what happened here with both GB and bartjan.

There will always be those who would prefer to believe that "The man" had it in for their friend, who is unquestionably guiltless. It's happened before; it will happen again. There's not much we can do about that.

(This must be great fun for someone who made a lot of noise about hating the community here.)

Did I say I hated the cb2 community? I guess I'll have to go back and find out when I get home...

I know there is a simple set of rules that make up the code of what is and is not a multi, and I understand the need for them to be static and unchanging. There has also been produced ample reason for a lack of explanation of actual offences commited, so we don't even get to know why it is that BC was included in this ban (unless it had to do with the char transfer made by his son, which I doubt). All the same, can't you at least see how little sense it all makes, from a users perspective?

That last wasn't directed to you, novice. Unless you did say that. :P

"All the same, can't you at least see how little sense it all makes, from a users perspective?"

No, I can't. If you'll point out where GB, bartjan, or I failed to make sense, I'd be happy to explain further.

What I _can_ understand is that people can be upset when one of their friends is banned. But I'm not really worked up about this particular instance because I've seen this happen before many times. And I'm certainly not going to let that stop my admins from banning someone they caught multi-ing.

The classic CB1 example was BadAsh. Even after being caught using a bot and being a multi, many players wanted the admins to make an exception and allow him back into the game. BadAsh was a respected, popular player, everyone liked him, but sycophantic blindness is a terrible thing. BadAsh was banned.

This is a farce

Anyone who has ever dared to criticize has been either ignored, ridiculed or disposed of in some way

now I know that I'll be banned for what follows but what the heck (PG)

Jon, you and your lackys are to be pitied. Your overwhelming need to 'squelch' any form of criticism smells - badly.

Moto never was a 'multi' but you knew that he carried enough weight and respect that it would be a problem for you. So you got rid of the problem

You're a coward and worse than that, you are a coward that gets someone else to so your dirty work

So basically, kryuk, your argument boils down to "I agreed with BCMoto therefore your banning must be unjust."

With logic like that, it's no wonder that I'm so selfishly, unreasonably willing to ignore criticism! (The horror!)

and of course deleting your original reply because it it made you look bad is right up you alley too

no my arguement boils down to the fact that Moto being a multi was as likely as me going to the moon. You know it, I know it and anyone who know Moto knows it as well.

You banned him solely to silence him

If you want to be THE MAN at least be A MAN

If Jon's agenda was that fascist don't you think he would multi-banning everyone that disagrees with him? Despite how popular BCMoto was his words have no more power then anyone else that posts in the forums. Ranger would have definitely been multi-banned by now ;)

P.S. props on the awesome zing.

YAY! Just what I come to CB for! The soap opera!

By the logic of this situaton, it seems to me that all family members should be limited to one account. If one does not believe that BCMoto was also in fact thefuji and emin3nt, why do other people whose family members are based from the same household not accused of the same thing? The supporters of BCMoto have been accused of bias towards him due to his reputation, but I'd like to know what separates his case from any other parent/child or husband/wife combination.

This is not an accusation that all of these are multis, I know that isn't the case. But if we're shallow in thinking that he's innocent, I would like to know a reason why that's a bit deeper than "the admins have methods that are dangerous to release to the public in order to keep cb safe from multis".

let me see if i fully understand this. Moto was banned because his son made duplicate accounts? this seems wrong to me. is that how it works here?

Monty stole millions of dollars in game money and hundreds in real USD using a pyramid scheme on both CB1 and CB2. Yet he was very well liked and people continued to want to give him a brake.

I'm not saying that this is always the case, but there are people who score high on the Machiavellian Scale (yes this scale does indeed exist). These people are extremely good at getting others to like them. These people do indeed think that things like trust, honor, and friendship are commodities to be used for their betterment. They don't actually feel such things, which is why they are able to give a more 'authentic' impression of them. That may seem contradictory, but it is indeed easier to see the cause and effect of emotions when you stand outside the system with which they operate.

My position as a sub-admin is mix. Yes I am a part of this administration, but as a person who is yet unable to see those things that the full-admin sees, I am but a bi-stander like all of you. All I can say is how I feel in that respect. So here it goes.

I can understand why the evidence must be kept a secret. I can understand the reasons for both banning and reseting people for braking the rules that we have. If I somehow was mistaken as a multi and was reset, then I'm sure I'm suppose to feel wronged if I am indeed innocent. However, I myself would not bother to bash the administration for its mistake. I would not demand that I be consulted first. You have all indeed seen many multis attempt to clear there name and you all know that happens 99% of the time. They are immediately flamed and banned. That's because no matter what reason they give it just sounds like a far fetched story to everyone else.

A person can not prove they are not a multi by words alone. A person can't come in and give off some story that will make it all better. What is done is done and I would be willing to accept it if it happened to me. Why? I would accept it because I understand why it has to happen, even if there is a margin of error. I accept it because the alternative would bring about no enjoyment for any of us who actually play the game fairly. I accept it because those that do believe in trust, honor, and friendship would be the ones at risk if the admins didn't do something.

How is a person to act if they are mistakenly labeled a multi? If you truly enjoy this game (like the way that I do) then you would just keep playing. The proof lies not in words but in your character (not the playable character which owns minions, but the part of yourself that you display). In time, if people truly believe you, then all damage can be undone. There are many that are willing to help you recover lost fortunes. There does indeed exist a way to get back into the game with such funds. People are cool like that and the end of times are never near. Turn off public record forums and walk into chat is what I would do. There is no reason why an innocent person can't just float above it all.

Sorry, but I suppose I can ramble on like this at times. Personally, I just want to go back to enjoying what we have here. Good luck to us all a may this indeed be a better year from here on out.

just how are you supposed to keep playing when banned???

BCMoto was not banned until well after the fact. That is how he was able to make his reply to the post. When a person is accused of being a multi the original or first account is only reset and his duplicates are banned.

BCMoto's primary account being banned is only a recent event do to his conduct. Being a multi does not mean you can't play, but it could if you react in a manner that is childish or offensive.

Vestax, BCMoto was banned because he was a multi, not because of his recent behavior; as per Jon: "BC has been banned as a multi as is normal."

OK - you'll have to explain what 'conduct' he exhibited that would cause him to get banned.

Now - with all this talk of multis and banning I find this interesting

http://carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001fJG

Apparently this person had multied (is that a word?) before yet wasn't immediately banned. It wasn't until he multied (still not sure that its a word) again that he was banned.

Same offense - different rules ????

Whoa again....
last I looked this thread was closed.

Allow me to present Exhibit A:
Mikel... Been a big thorn to Jon in the past and probably will be again someday, I'm still here.
I play one and only one account, so I will never be banned as a Multi. If I were running more than one account, then I'm the stupid one for spending so much USD accumulating my wealth of equipment.

And again, I wasn't calling BCMoto out on the multi thing, you over reacted kryuk, I am just as shocked as the rest of you. I just assumed that he sold off his stuff, and gave his account away and they got caught.

On the other side, I have zero tolerance for multis, nor any sympathy, except for those that get screwed over by them.

Now, I have reported quite a few multi's myself and some are legit and some GB explained to me that he needed more evidence. So I'm pretty confident if GB and Bart were both in on it that the account was used improperly. Again, it might not have been BCMoto himself involved other than giving his account to someone else. But I can say that he wasn't retaliated upon by Jon, else I would be gone by now as well.

and of course since his account has been deleted, there is no way to check to see if there was any obviously suspicious activity. you know one sided transfers and stuff like that

SNK3R thanks for the interpretation. Geez you sure are the smartest person here. Do you really have to respond to everything posted? A wise man once said "he who listens learns". You simply add fuel to each and every fire by adding your interpretation or speaking for someone else. Thanks Cliff Clavin!

I have personally closed this thread once again. It no longer holds the chance of being a positive outlet on this issue. kryuk may think that I am trying to silencing him, but I am indeed trying to help him save face. He is at the point where he is incapable of convincing anyone of his opinion except those that believe it already. I regret that this has to happen again.

Post Closed.