I know change month is over but: new item ideas. (in General)

AdminShade February 3 2006 6:43 AM EST

Now I have had some thoughts about new items, both weapons and armor. I won't post them all because I need to think about balancing a bit more.

Item 1: Repeating Crossbow (name isn't perfect since it doesn't really reflect the items abilities)

Same stats and upgrade prices as the Compound Bow since crossbows are, damage wise, underpowered and I would like to see some more diversity in the game.

So a Repeating Crossbow with the following stats [5x50] (+45) would have a NW of $4,868,022

Item 2: Talon of Glaurung: named after the first of the fire drakes of the world of tolkien, the writer of Lord of the Rings.

This blade is somewhat similar to a Blade of Thuringwethil in terms of damage but for diversity and looks, it has some small changes.

At around 10 million NW you would expect these: [73x72] (+69)
which are the stats of a $10,036,167 NW BTh

The special ability of this item is that it deals 75% of it's damage in Physical form, and 25% of it's damage in Magic Fire Damage, which of course is less blocked because of the fact that only enchanted armor class blocks magic damage, but only that a Rune of Balrog flame will block some of it's damage.
Against most strategies this weapon would deal a bit more damage than usual.

(this could be 50% Physical and 50% Magical to give it even a bigger difference)

These were 2 of my better, if not best, item ideas. Just read them through and ask questions about them or discuss on why they shouldn't be put into the game.

Kind Regards


Sacredpeanut February 3 2006 6:47 AM EST

Like 2nd idea (some sort of weapon that deals magical and physical damage).
Would mage shield/TSA reduce the magical component?

Xiaz on Hiatus February 3 2006 6:47 AM EST

Item 1: Repeating Crossbow (name isn't perfect since it doesn't really reflect the items abilities)

Same stats and upgrade prices as the Compound Bow since crossbows are, damage wise, underpowered and I would like to see some more diversity in the game.

So a Repeating Crossbow with the following stats [5x50] (+45) would have a NW of $4,868,022

So does it have any 'special' abilities?

[CB1]Deadlight February 3 2006 6:51 AM EST

I like number Shade, althought i would have to say the physical and magical part would have to be slightly lower than 50-50, prolly more close to 80-20, only so that it would not seem so over powered.

AdminShade February 3 2006 6:54 AM EST

SacredPeanut: yes Trollskin Armor and Mage Shield would reduce the magic part of the damage indeed.

Perhaps the total damage should be near that of an ELS though, with 80 base or perhaps even a bit more damage, as it is easier to block 2 smaller amounts of damage than 1 big amount of damage

Carbonize: nope it doesn't have any other abilities, other than be competitive to the people that don't want to use Assassins' or Enforcer's Crossbows, for say Seeker bolts, but do want to be able to dish out some damage, because a Heavy Crossbow hardly does any damage anymore with 2 bigger bows that are cheaper (in upgrades) and deal more damage overall.

Sacredpeanut February 3 2006 6:56 AM EST

How about this for item 1:

Repeating Crossbow

Same stats and upgrade prices as the Compound Bow but bypasses half opponents evasion (from both skill and DB's).

AdminShade February 3 2006 7:20 AM EST

Deadlight: the weapon isn't even close to being overpowered.

mostly because you deal less physical damage, thus easier to block:

with physical and magic damage at 50% / 50% :

If you'd do 200,000 physical damage with 31% blocking (150 AC) you'd do 138,000 damage

But with this weapon you would deal 100,000 physical damage and it would be reduced to 69,000

then for the magical part, i will make an example with a Mage Shield +25 which blocks at least 25% of the magical damage, a Trollskin Armor with +40. and an overall magic reduction of 10% (which is 47 enchanted armor class, reasonably easy to get)

With the first damage reduction, you would do 100,000 damage which is reduced to 90,000

the 90,000 would then be recuded to 67500 by the Mage Shield

And that 67,500 damage would be reduced to 64,125 by the Trollskin Armor

Adding both 69,000 and 64,125 up would be a total damage of 133,125 damage then.

So normal weapon physical damage: 138,000 damage
With this new weapon: 133,125 damage
And without a Trollskin armor you would deal 136500 damage, which is very close to the original damage.

So I have just proven a Mage Shield to be very effective as a means of defending against this weapon.

Scenario with Mithril Shield instead of Mage Shield:

Total AC 200, Enchanted AC around 100 (+40 Mithril Shield, +20 Chain Mail leggings, +40 body armor)

normal weapon doing 200,000 damage

would be reduced by 42% to 116,000 damage

new weapon doing 100,000 physical and 100,000 magical damage

100,000 physical damage would be reduced to 68,000 damage

100,000 magic damage would be reduced by 21% to 79,000 damage

68,000 + 79,000 = 147,000

So then you would deal some more damage

Grant February 3 2006 10:09 AM EST

The problem with the talon is figuring out how AMF affects it. If AMF doesn't, it's overpowered. If AMF does, then there is no good way to figure out how AMF does.

And I didn't know Glaurung, the first of the fire drakes in the world of Tolkien, wrote the Lord of the Rings :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 3 2006 10:21 AM EST

DM doesn't effect item enchantments, so I don't see why AMF has to work on this sword.

It would do more damage than a pure physical sword of it's stats due to magic damage only being reduced by AC +, but it would have to deal with TSA, MgS and RBF reductions instead.

I feel that would even things out! :)

Maybe we could go the whole hog and have a weapon that deal 100% Magic damage, but that could be too Lightsaber ish for taste! ;)

QBJohnnywas February 3 2006 10:32 AM EST

Obviously not a new item: Sling Of David! Especially as Cb1 is no longer with us. It would be a nice little CB2 tribute to one of my favourite items from that game. Ah my 'Giantkiller' I miss you still....;)

AdminShade February 3 2006 10:33 AM EST

@ Grant: tolkien wrote lord of the rings, i accidently missed a "whom" (sorry :p)

Indeed, how should AMF interact with it, imo it shouldn't and overpowered, not really if you fit a good base damage to it i think.

@ GentlemanLoser: indeed DM doesn't affect Morgul Hammer or Blade of Thuringwethil, so neither should AMF affect any elemental/magic based weapons.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 3 2006 10:35 AM EST

It's physical contact (like the old CBF), so AMF doesn't touch it.

Elemental weapons and runes would be great...

Hammer of Caradhras (does extra cold damage)

Glamdring the Foe-Hammer (extra magical force damage)

A Rune of the Northern Wasteland (CoC blocking, Cold damage doing)

A Rune of Force ("force" blocking, blah blah)

maybe we'd need some AC to match?

AdminShade February 3 2006 10:38 AM EST

novice, with a good balancing of the magic and physical abilities of those possible new weapons, no extra armor class will be needed, as they should only do minimal extra damage (at least in my example)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 3 2006 10:42 AM EST

How about living weapons and armour.

When equipped, they appear on the 'Train' screen of the minion wearing them. Weapon X and + and armour AC can only be upgraded by spending the wearing minions XP on the item.

AdminShade February 3 2006 10:46 AM EST

Aren't we already having that with the tattoos and runes? would go a bit into the extremes imo...

[Jedi] Danludar February 3 2006 11:49 AM EST

These are both great ideas but on the blade a TSA would block both physical and magical damage so against like lets say someone with huge CML's a TSA MGS HoD Tulks SC and DB's they would have a slim chance of during much damage against that person if the AC and magic blocking is high enough and the DB's are high enough?

AdminShade February 3 2006 11:55 AM EST

TSA hardly has any magic blocking in melee rounds, so it isn't a real problem i think. And against a huge AC nothing deals much damage, so the new weapon wouldn't either.

Grant February 3 2006 12:17 PM EST

This is evolving into just another variation on the VB theme.

Except, nerfable with supporter items.

AdminShade February 3 2006 12:30 PM EST

True, it is a variant on the VB theme, but why is that bad then?

QBOddBird February 4 2006 12:20 AM EST

I really agree that the SoD should be brought back. Please? Pretty, pretty please?

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] February 4 2006 1:50 AM EST

Hope you don't mind if we add a few more item ideas in. And also, I like your ideas. They would be nice additions, although the rxbow would need to be stronger. Since it always skips the second round of ranged, why not make it 33% easier to upgrade on the X than a compound? Less hits, a little more damage.

I would still prefer a bow or crossbow that would target all enemy minions. It would be much more difficult to upgrade on damage, but it would be nice to be able to try DM with a tank for the first time ever.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 4 2006 2:22 AM EST

if the SoD gets brought back I'll have Gothmog eat his hat (+80? cmon!)

We haven't had any fixed damage supporter items, so maybe an upgradable mage seeking sling...

AdminShade February 4 2006 8:09 AM EST

Vaynard, by all means, get your own ideas in here also, it would make others and me think about them also.
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